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Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:58 pm
by Bird on a Fire
NYT has them and is making them public.
Guess what - he doesn't pay very much tax.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:01 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.
He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... taxes.html
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:02 pm
by Bird on a Fire
I'm delighted to report that I pay less income tax than Trump, and I didn't need to hire a bunch of fancy lawyers. I'm the real stable genius.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:30 pm
by Bird on a Fire
It seems very odd to me that business losses and asset depreciation can be used to reduce income tax - it seems to imply that owning failing businesses and decaying assets is in some way a public benefit. Is it a normal feature of tax codes to allow the owner class to reduce their tax liabilities in this way, or peculiar to the US?
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:47 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Nothing new in there really - obvious tax avoidance; many seemingly-dodgy writeoffs; most businesses he owns apparently failing, with the exception of celebrity income; money siphoned to kids and sleazy lawyers as "consultant fees"; income from operations in dodgy regimes during the presidency; huge amounts of debt, mostly coming due in the next 5 years.
The NYT calls the following "
revelations":
Among the key findings of The Times’s investigation:
Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.
He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service.
Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes.
The financial pressure on him is increasing as hundreds of millions of dollars in loans he personally guaranteed are soon coming due.
Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television.
Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill.
As president, he has received more money from foreign sources and U.S. interest groups than previously known. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.
but they mostly seem pretty old-hat and entirely unsurprising to me.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 pm
by dyqik
Far more important is that he has hundreds of millions in loans coming due within the next four years, and no income too pay them with.
Also, $750 dollars in taxes is a number that may well cause more outrage than if it was zero. Zero is an abstraction, $750 is an outrageously small number.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:08 am
by Boustrophedon
dyqik wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 pm
Far more important is that he has hundreds of millions in loans coming due within the next four years, and no income too pay them with.
Also, $750 dollars in taxes is a number that may well cause more outrage than if it was zero. Zero is an abstraction, $750 is an outrageously small number.
All good points, but do you think his supporters really care?
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:06 am
by dyqik
Boustrophedon wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:08 am
dyqik wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 pm
Far more important is that he has hundreds of millions in loans coming due within the next four years, and no income too pay them with.
Also, $750 dollars in taxes is a number that may well cause more outrage than if it was zero. Zero is an abstraction, $750 is an outrageously small number.
All good points, but do you think his supporters really care?
It's not his supporters that matter - he can't win with just them. It's those voters that might vote for him because he's a Republican who got them their judge, or who just might not bother. Particularly if there's no Senate race where they are, etc.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:37 am
by El Pollo Diablo
Whoopsie
Ivanka Trump got paid a shitload in consultancy fees whilst she was working as an employee. Turns out that's illegal.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/i ... uble/32591
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:47 am
by Grumble
His supporters will make a virtue of this, and disbelieve it simultaneously.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:37 am
by Martin_B
Shows what an exceptional businessman he is. (Or is it egregious?)
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:44 am
by FredM
Brassic Trump still managed to raise huge loans from DB in 2014/2015. Wonder who underwrote them?*
* Большой секрет -- знает весь свет.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am
by EACLucifer
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:47 am
His supporters will make a virtue of this, and disbelieve it simultaneously.
What Dyqik said, though. This offers several lines of attack that might well help with people who might vote either way; it's not just that he's cheating the American people, it's also that he is clearly a very bad businessman
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:58 am
by Tessa K
EACLucifer wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:47 am
His supporters will make a virtue of this, and disbelieve it simultaneously.
What Dyqik said, though. This offers several lines of attack that might well help with people who might vote either way; it's not just that he's cheating the American people, it's also that he is clearly a very bad businessman
Or is he a very good businessman because he gets away with it - and will this time too?
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
by Grumble
All of this will be drowned out by the Supreme Court. Ironically the best way for this to impact his re-election chances is for the Supreme Court seat to be resolved quickly and not be a factor in people’s minds. IMO.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:19 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
All of this will be drowned out by the Supreme Court. Ironically the best way for this to impact his re-election chances is for the Supreme Court seat to be resolved quickly and not be a factor in people’s minds. IMO.
OTOH the Supreme Court pick will long outlast Trump, and potentially hinder the ability of other presidents to pass legislation for decades.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:08 pm
by headshot
Tessa K wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:58 am
EACLucifer wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:47 am
His supporters will make a virtue of this, and disbelieve it simultaneously.
What Dyqik said, though. This offers several lines of attack that might well help with people who might vote either way; it's not just that he's cheating the American people, it's also that he is clearly a very bad businessman
Or is he a very good businessman because he gets away with it - and will this time too?
"The Economy" is the one area of policy on which Trump consistently polls better Biden amongst undecided voters. This will presumably take that away from him now.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:58 pm
by dyqik
EACLucifer wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:47 am
His supporters will make a virtue of this, and disbelieve it simultaneously.
What Dyqik said, though. This offers several lines of attack that might well help with people who might vote either way; it's not just that he's cheating the American people, it's also that he is clearly a very bad businessman
There's also the line of attack which is that Trump promised to unrig the system, so that his white poor supporters could also take advantage to lower their taxes. Instead, he passed a tax bill that made it easier for him to screw the system while making it harder for them to reduce their taxes.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:02 pm
by dyqik
Bird on a Fire wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:19 pm
Grumble wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:02 pm
All of this will be drowned out by the Supreme Court. Ironically the best way for this to impact his re-election chances is for the Supreme Court seat to be resolved quickly and not be a factor in people’s minds. IMO.
OTOH the Supreme Court pick will long outlast Trump, and potentially hinder the ability of other presidents to pass legislation for decades.
That can be fixed, in several ways, if it gets out of hand. The most powerful one is that the Supreme Court is only empowered by the Constitution to rule on certain issues. Most of its power comes from more normal laws about the make-up and rule of the court, that can be changed fairly easily, with the Supreme Court being replaced by another appellate court for most issues, or even just not having a nationwide appellate court. That same procedure can also be used to increase the number of judges on the Supreme Court, to put term limits in place on it (the Constitution says that judges serve for life, but it doesn't say _where_ they serve), etc. This only needs a bare majority in the House, Senate (after ditching the filibuster) and no presidential veto.
All of these things are breaking the current norms, but norms aren't rules, and the GOP has been breaking them good and hard already.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:43 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Excellent news. I hope the Biden administration does just that.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:51 pm
by FlammableFlower
$70k for hair styling for TV claimed as expenses.... 'cos he's worth it...
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:19 pm
by jimbob
FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:51 pm
$70k for hair styling for TV claimed as expenses.... 'cos he's worth it...
From ISF
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:09 pm
by Squeak
I can't see most Republican voters caring very much in this era of intense tribalism. What would be shocking scandals for any other politician are just met by shrugs.
However, I can see Trump himself throwing tantrums and making stupid mistakes because he's so angry about being exposed like this. And he's not going to have time to simmer down before the first debate that's happening in about 24 hours.
Those tantrums and mistakes are unlikely to help him win over any current Biden supporters, which he needs to do.
Re: Trump Tax Returns
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:35 pm
by dyqik
There's a whole breed of Republican voters who justify voting for Trump as "voting with their pocketbooks". Detailed description of Trump as financially incompetent, and screwing them on taxes, Medicare and social security, isn't going to help him with them.
My MiL is one. She voted for him, and then was upset that he won. Mind you, she'll probably vote for him again, although maybe just won't bother to vote. And in Texas, that might make a difference.