Scrutable

Oh sh.t...

“Two masked men entered the bus. They held the driver, a male, at gunpoint, they said something about the protocol, and they then proceeded to spray the inside of the bus with flammable liquid. They forced the bus driver off the bus and then they set it alight,” Mallon told BBC Radio Ulster’s The Nolan Show.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... rn-ireland

Fuckity f.ck. Fortunately no one is dead yet this time round. Should that happen it’s quite likely we’ll be back to the bad old days.

* sigh *

Maybe that should be posted under Brexit benefits too.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/n ... 14781.html

ffs here we go again

plodder wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:22 pm

“Two masked men entered the bus. They held the driver, a male, at gunpoint, they said something about the protocol, and they then proceeded to spray the inside of the bus with flammable liquid. They forced the bus driver off the bus and then they set it alight,” Mallon told BBC Radio Ulster’s The Nolan Show.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... rn-ireland

I was not aware that bus-burning ever stopped. Slowed down maybe, but didn't stop. I thought there had been some other bus-burnings really quite recently. Similarly there has been a continuing trickle of other kinds of sectarian incidents. The particular issues of sectarian disagreement of the moment, always some of those available, created if necessary, are likely to be mentioned.

I'm waiting for the piece in Spiked saying the Troubles weren't so bad as all that really. (It must get a bit tense in their office as they try to square their support for all things Brexit and their consequent need to defend the extreme Unionist position with their associate Claire Fox's continuing refusal to renounce her pro-IRA stance, but I guess the consistency is at some sort of meta level.)

There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:29 am There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

Are you really saying you think there are some (all ??) remain voters who celebrate this sort of behaviour ?? Really ??

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:29 am There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

Well, personally I blame unionist paramilitaries in this case. Are you suggesting I wouldn’t?

temptar wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:02 am

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:29 am There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

Well, personally I blame unionist paramilitaries in this case. Are you suggesting I wouldn’t?

Not aimed at you personally Temptar. I see a sense of crowing in some UK journalism on the topic.

Lew Dolby wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:57 am

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:29 am There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

Are you really saying you think there are some (all ??) remain voters who celebrate this sort of behaviour ?? Really ??

There are some who ignore the fact that it's been happening since before the Brexit vote and use it as a way of saying 'see what happens when you vote for Brexit', who would never dream of saying the same thing if unionist paramilitaries committed acts of violence after they lost a vote to leave the UK. 'See what happens when you vote to leave the UK' would not occur to many ardent-remain Guardian or BBC journalists.

temptar wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:02 am

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:29 am There's not a single person quietly crowing over this as some kind of affirmation of their remain vote who wouldn't blame anybody but the unionists paramilitaries if they did the exactly same thing after a vote to reunite Ireland.

Well, personally I blame unionist paramilitaries in this case. Are you suggesting I wouldn’t?

Any "quiet crowing" is of the "I told you so" variety. Anyone sensible would also be nervous of a vote to unify Ireland, which is why "Guardian readers" and "Labour voters" were presumably relieved by the power sharing agreements set up by the GFA, are worried by the current stalemate at Stormont, and are utterly depressed by the gung-ho Article 16 b.llsh.t.

"I told you so" doesn't mean much when it was already happening. Article 16 negotiation is entirely aimed at allowing NI to operate a full member of the UK, with unified customs, as the original agreement stated as a goal.

Having been raised by a couple of Labour party members, one of whom was Irish and both of whom were very much in favour of a united Ireland I do not recognise the picture you paint

Views like this are widespread, including amongst people with no Irish ancestry
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ion-future

I should be clear that I would be happy to support a United Ireland too, but I'm under no illusion about how an embittered fringe of unionists might behave after they lost that vote. Taking an example of unionist violence that has been going on since before the 2016 vote as a 'told you so' thing regarding Brexit is pretty petulant and small in my view, and I've constantly been shocked by the way EU commissioners have attempted to use it as a negotiating leaver to protect their internal markets.

Except that they're now "muttering about the protocol" before forcing people off buses at gunpoint.

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:19 pm Except that they're now "muttering about the protocol" before forcing people off buses at gunpoint.

Sure. They were muttering something else as they did it before 2016 and they'd be muttering about 'rigged votes' etc.. as they torched police cars if the referendum to unite Ireland is ever held and won too.

So they feel empowered right now, glad we cleared that up. Perhaps a more inclusive policy might calm them down a bit.

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:24 pm So they feel empowered right now, glad we cleared that up. Perhaps a more inclusive policy might calm them down a bit.

Please, please do some basic statistical research before getting swept away in the anti-brexit narratives the Guardian and BBC huff out

https://www.statista.com/statistics/620 ... vation-ni/

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:26 pm

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:24 pm So they feel empowered right now, glad we cleared that up. Perhaps a more inclusive policy might calm them down a bit.

Please, please do some basic statistical research before getting swept away in the anti-brexit narratives the Guardian and BBC huff out

https://www.statista.com/statistics/620 ... vation-ni/

Some weird registration firewall there

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:30 pm

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:26 pm

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:24 pm So they feel empowered right now, glad we cleared that up. Perhaps a more inclusive policy might calm them down a bit.

Please, please do some basic statistical research before getting swept away in the anti-brexit narratives the Guardian and BBC huff out

https://www.statista.com/statistics/620 ... vation-ni/

Some weird registration firewall there

It's doing it to me as well now. What it shows is a steady decrease in sectarian incidents in police records from 2005 to 2020. They've pretty much halved in that timescale. The idea that unionist extremists feel 'empowered' is way off the mark. They're disempowered. They saw the GFA as a step towards a united ireland and the brexit arrangements which were supposed to maintain the integrity of the UK (including customs integrity) fail to do that as another step towards them being prised away from the rest of the union. All of that said, they've been much less active all through brexit than they were 15 years ago.

I mean, not that police figures for public disorder over the last couple of years won't be representative or anything, but are yous tekin the feckin pess?

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:08 pm I mean, not that police figures for public disorder over the last couple of years won't be representative or anything, but are yous tekin the feckin pess?

It's goes back to 2005. The figures for 2016-2019 were low on the same trend.

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:45 pm

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:08 pm I mean, not that police figures for public disorder over the last couple of years won't be representative or anything, but are yous tekin the feckin pess?

It's goes back to 2005. The figures for 2016-2019 were low on the same trend.

So not having seen the figures, which are for arrests rather than complaints? we’ve had the referendum, May (w/DUP), the backstop, Johnson’s no deal, johnson’s deal, the shenanigans, the A16 b.llsh.t, and there’s nothing in that lot to motivate Unionists? Nice.

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:59 pm

sheldrake wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:45 pm

plodder wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:08 pm I mean, not that police figures for public disorder over the last couple of years won't be representative or anything, but are yous tekin the feckin pess?

It's goes back to 2005. The figures for 2016-2019 were low on the same trend.

So not having seen the figures, which are for arrests rather than complaints? we’ve had the referendum, May (w/DUP), the backstop, Johnson’s no deal, johnson’s deal, the shenanigans, the A16 b.llsh.t, and there’s nothing in that lot to motivate Unionists? Nice.

There might be, but the number of annual police-recorded incidents carried on declining after the referendum. The figures don't include 2021 so when they're published if there's a massive spike that takes things way up into pre-2005 territory then that would be a fair sign that something bad has happened.

You know what else triggers unionists (and most other aggressive young fucknuts) though? being unemployed. Here's a graph showing youth unemployment significantly declining in NI from 2015 to 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/384 ... n-ireland/

Whatever happened that got their unemployment down so sharply after the brexit vote needs to keep happening, I reckon.

The Guardian and BBC are utterly shameless in their crappy slipshod narrative-driven analysis of these things. It's all projection of urban middle-class obsessions and little meat.