Scrutable

plodder wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:28 pm Conversations around things like mental health, trigger warnings, anxiety are far more common than they used to be, and of course there are some positives to draw from this.

But as a middle aged old git it feels like younger people are floored by stuff (or worried about being floored by stuff) that perhaps they ought to be more resilient towards. Example - I've just sat through a wellbeing moment at work where a guy in his 20s has asked that our generic health and safety briefings come with a trigger warning that the briefing may contain material suitable for mature audiences.

I'm just a bit thinking this is too babyish for work. Someone talk me round please.

Fishnut wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:00 am We are killing our planet, and no-one in a position of power cares enough to do anything about it. We have f.cked our economy, costs of living are rising rapidly and salaries are nowhere near matching that rise. Many young people can barely afford to support themselves, let along save enough to own a home, or raise kids. Pensions are becoming much less generous meaning even if you reach retirement age (which keeps going up) it's uncertain whether you'll be able to afford to retire. Honestly, I'd be amazed if young people weren't anxious. I

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:21 am I mean, my nan was absolutely f.cking terrified about nuclear war. In the 60s during the Cuban missile crisis, she would wait anxiously by the door for the newspaper to delivered to discover whether annihilation was imminent or not. That anxiety fed through pretty much to the rest of her life thereafter, and obviously WW2 had knocked her for six in the first place, living as she did in London through the Blitz.

My mum ended up on beta-blockers in the 80s after getting anxiety, and there's bits of it in the rest of my family as well (I have, thankfully, been spared anything myself as yet). At both those points above, neither my nan nor my mum were in work, and so there wasn't any real exposure to other people. Also not available was any kind of social media, or any culture where discussing it was possible. My dad didn't want my mum even to get treated for it, though (thankfully) she saw it as any other medical condition and refused to back down.

So, I think there's several factors. Firstly, anxiety has always been with us. Secondly, the culture around admitting it has been very suppressive until now - men would never (and still often fail to) admit to it, and women weren't (and still often fail to be) listened to about it. Thirdly, there weren't many environments in which people could listen to it - having a voice in the way anyone now can was nigh on impossible back in the day, unless you were famous. Now, with social media, people can make much more of a thing about it. Fourthly, with much higher presence of women in the workplace (and honestly I think women should get most of the credit here), cultures have shifted enough that discussion of mental health is much more open and possible than it's ever been before, and people feel more confident raising issues about what makes them or others anxious.

That's quite aside from whether there's any bigger drives of anxiety in the first place - is climate change a more existential driver of anxiety than the prospect of nuclear war? I don't know, honestly.

Now, that's not to say there isn't a state where this stuff goes too far, but to me it seems like getting where we are now is generally a good thing.

Opti wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:45 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:21 am I mean, my nan was absolutely f.cking terrified about nuclear war. In the 60s during the Cuban missile crisis, she would wait anxiously by the door for the newspaper to delivered to discover whether annihilation was imminent or not. That anxiety fed through pretty much to the rest of her life thereafter, and obviously WW2 had knocked her for six in the first place, living as she did in London through the Blitz.

My mum ended up on beta-blockers in the 80s after getting anxiety, and there's bits of it in the rest of my family as well (I have, thankfully, been spared anything myself as yet). At both those points above, neither my nan nor my mum were in work, and so there wasn't any real exposure to other people. Also not available was any kind of social media, or any culture where discussing it was possible. My dad didn't want my mum even to get treated for it, though (thankfully) she saw it as any other medical condition and refused to back down.

So, I think there's several factors. Firstly, anxiety has always been with us. Secondly, the culture around admitting it has been very suppressive until now - men would never (and still often fail to) admit to it, and women weren't (and still often fail to be) listened to about it. Thirdly, there weren't many environments in which people could listen to it - having a voice in the way anyone now can was nigh on impossible back in the day, unless you were famous. Now, with social media, people can make much more of a thing about it. Fourthly, with much higher presence of women in the workplace (and honestly I think women should get most of the credit here), cultures have shifted enough that discussion of mental health is much more open and possible than it's ever been before, and people feel more confident raising issues about what makes them or others anxious.

That's quite aside from whether there's any bigger drives of anxiety in the first place - is climate change a more existential driver of anxiety than the prospect of nuclear war? I don't know, honestly.

Now, that's not to say there isn't a state where this stuff goes too far, but to me it seems like getting where we are now is generally a good thing.

What he said.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:21 am That's quite aside from whether there's any bigger drives of anxiety in the first place - is climate change a more existential driver of anxiety than the prospect of nuclear war? I don't know, honestly.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:43 am The combination of evident impacts plus an obvious but avoided route away from catastrophe probably both combine to increase anxiety about those issues.

Fishnut wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:00 am We are killing our planet, and no-one in a position of power cares enough to do anything about it. We have f.cked our economy, costs of living are rising rapidly and salaries are nowhere near matching that rise. Many young people can barely afford to support themselves, let along save enough to own a home, or raise kids. Pensions are becoming much less generous meaning even if you reach retirement age (which keeps going up) it's uncertain whether you'll be able to afford to retire. Honestly, I'd be amazed if young people weren't anxious. I

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:46 am There's plenty of stats showing a genuine increase in anxiety in young people, btw.

Part of the explanation seems to be the commodification of attention and emotional engagement by big tech companies, especially for the in younger generations who were manipulated throughout their development by algorithms.

lpm wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:02 pm

Fishnut wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:00 am We are killing our planet, and no-one in a position of power cares enough to do anything about it. We have f.cked our economy, costs of living are rising rapidly and salaries are nowhere near matching that rise. Many young people can barely afford to support themselves, let along save enough to own a home, or raise kids. Pensions are becoming much less generous meaning even if you reach retirement age (which keeps going up) it's uncertain whether you'll be able to afford to retire. Honestly, I'd be amazed if young people weren't anxious. I

Standards of living are higher today than 30 years ago or 60 years ago. Owning a house isn't more expensive. Pensions are much much higher and fewer OAPs live in awful poverty.

plodder wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:54 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:43 am The combination of evident impacts plus an obvious but avoided route away from catastrophe probably both combine to increase anxiety about those issues.

I guess my question is "is there more reported anxiety or more actual anxiety?"

Hierarchical linear modeling analyses separating the effects of age, period, and birth cohort suggest the trends among adults are primarily due to cohort, with a steady rise in mood disorder and suicide-related outcomes between cohorts born from the early 1980s (Millennials) to the late 1990s (iGen). Cultural trends contributing to an increase in mood disorders and suicidal thoughts and behaviors since the mid-2000s, including the rise of electronic communication and digital media and declines in sleep duration, may have had a larger impact on younger people, creating a cohort effect.

dyqik wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:03 pm

lpm wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:02 pm

Fishnut wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:00 am We are killing our planet, and no-one in a position of power cares enough to do anything about it. We have f.cked our economy, costs of living are rising rapidly and salaries are nowhere near matching that rise. Many young people can barely afford to support themselves, let along save enough to own a home, or raise kids. Pensions are becoming much less generous meaning even if you reach retirement age (which keeps going up) it's uncertain whether you'll be able to afford to retire. Honestly, I'd be amazed if young people weren't anxious. I

Standards of living are higher today than 30 years ago or 60 years ago. Owning a house isn't more expensive. Pensions are much much higher and fewer OAPs live in awful poverty.

That's hardly a comfort to young people, who are constantly told that housing is out of reach (which it is, due to rents, and the higher deposits relative to earnings. Housing costs as a fraction of income have been going up for decades), and that the pensions system will collapse before they can claim them.

dyqik wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:03 pm That's hardly a comfort to young people, who are constantly told that housing is out of reach (which it is, due to rents, and the higher deposits relative to earnings. Housing costs as a fraction of income have been going up for decades), and that the pensions system will collapse before they can claim them.

dyqik wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:03 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:46 am There's plenty of stats showing a genuine increase in anxiety in young people, btw.

Part of the explanation seems to be the commodification of attention and emotional engagement by big tech companies, especially for the in younger generations who were manipulated throughout their development by algorithms.

24 hour globalized news is probably also a factor here, on the "tech/media" side.

EPD's nan waiting for the daily newspaper is a different level of engagement than half a dozen news apps popping up breaking news alerts whenever there's a school shooting in Texas, an earthquake in Indonesia, a stabbing in that there London, etc., and TV screens showing three different versions of this constantly in public places (more of a US thing there).

lpm wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:20 pm

dyqik wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:03 pm That's hardly a comfort to young people, who are constantly told that housing is out of reach (which it is, due to rents, and the higher deposits relative to earnings. Housing costs as a fraction of income have been going up for decades), and that the pensions system will collapse before they can claim them.

I don't know where to start with this. As a fraction of income, food and clothing costs have plummeted. Foreign holidays are now routine expenses. 25 million UK households own two cars.

House ownership is not any more out of reach for young people than before - it's always been a challenge. Yet young people are managing to get on the housing ladder while simultaneously having multiple holidays, a car and a f.cking avocado.

plodder wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:28 pm Conversations around things like mental health, trigger warnings, anxiety are far more common than they used to be, and of course there are some positives to draw from this.

But as a middle aged old git it feels like younger people are floored by stuff (or worried about being floored by stuff) that perhaps they ought to be more resilient towards. Example - I've just sat through a wellbeing moment at work where a guy in his 20s has asked that our generic health and safety briefings come with a trigger warning that the briefing may contain material suitable for mature audiences.

I'm just a bit thinking this is too babyish for work. Someone talk me round please.