Scrutable

I thought I'd start a general thread for this, as - surprise - Liz Truss is not just the only one who can do this.

Todays:
Therese Coffey on BBC Radio 4: “Poor people are richer than you think.”

Think that was yesterday's, wasn't it?

Today's was Rees-Mogg telling the BBC that it was being imbalanced to say that the mini-budget caused the economy to go to sh.t.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:53 am Think that was yesterday's, wasn't it?

Today's was Rees-Mogg telling the BBC that it was being imbalanced to say that the mini-budget caused the economy to go to sh.t.

The BBC has a charter to be impartial. Fair, not balanced.

Promising no spending cuts to fund their unfunded tax cuts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63221738

Can't see a GP because there aren't enough and they're too busy? I know says Coffey, "let's let pharmacists dole out antibiotics"...

Trinucleus wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:30 pm Promising no spending cuts to fund their unfunded tax cuts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63221738

Three days later..."I'm going to be asking all government departments to find additional efficiency savings."

in the form of...

FlammableFlower wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:52 am Can't see a GP because there aren't enough and they're too busy? I know says Coffey, "let's let pharmacists dole out antibiotics"...

She also said she 'has previously handed out her own supplies of the medicines to friends and family who were feeling unwell'. I'm struggling to understand how she's been able to do this given, as far as I can tell, she has no medical background that would permit her to prescribe medicines. if she does have powers of prescription, the GMC has warned against prescribing for friends and family since 2006 and has guidance to follow if you do. If she's giving out medicines that have been prescribed to her then she has been breaking the law.

Hunt has announce “painful decisions” including tax increases AND cuts to public spending.

So in just over a week we’ve gone “cut taxes, not spending” to “cut taxes, maybe cut spending” to “fewer tax cuts, no spending cuts” to “tax increases and public spending cuts”.

f.ck me.

Fishnut wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:32 am

FlammableFlower wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:52 am Can't see a GP because there aren't enough and they're too busy? I know says Coffey, "let's let pharmacists dole out antibiotics"...

She also said she 'has previously handed out her own supplies of the medicines to friends and family who were feeling unwell'. I'm struggling to understand how she's been able to do this given, as far as I can tell, she has no medical background that would permit her to prescribe medicines. if she does have powers of prescription, the GMC has warned against prescribing for friends and family since 2006 and has guidance to follow if you do. If she's giving out medicines that have been prescribed to her then she has been breaking the law.

Well I’m glad to see that she’s taking the risk of the nurses’ strike action seriously.

With Coffey I always get the impression she never wanted the job in the first place and had been desperately trying, and failing, to get sacked ever since not realising that Truss is capable of lowering the bar faster than she can ever hope to limbo.

Pharmacists prescribing antibiotics isn’t necessary idiocy.

UK pharmacists have since 2006 been able to prescribe some prescription medicines including antibiotics if they have received training: https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/educ ... prescriber
https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/arti ... tewardship
Or in defined circumstances via patient group directions:
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/what-is ... ction-pgd/
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/when-to-use-a-pgd-2/

So Coffey may just have got a headline by stating that they are going to do what they have been doing for years. If they are going to extend the service that might not be a bad thing if done properly.

As far as I remember pharmacy prescription happens already in Ireland and other developed countries. Adverse effects can be mitigated by strictly limiting the scope of what they can do and training them in the same protocols that are used by GPs.

For example, if someone is prescribed antibiotics for a urinary tract infection by their GP then a pharmacist might be able to prescribe a repeat prescription if the infection hadn’t cleared up.

One valid reason for pharmacies not having prescribing powers is to avoid a conflict of interest - the doctor prescribes, but does not profit from the sale of the medecine, while the pharmacy profits, but has no control over what is prescribed.

Millennie Al wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:38 am One valid reason for pharmacies not having prescribing powers is to avoid a conflict of interest - the doctor prescribes, but does not profit from the sale of the medecine, while the pharmacy profits, but has no control over what is prescribed.

I don't think its even a new idea. I'm sure a previous policy encouraged talking to pharmacists for minor ailments that could be addressed with over the counter meds, because I did exactly that once and the pharmacist sold me something but also told me to see my GP in case there was some underlying condition that they didn't want to be responsible for missing. I don't imagine that situation changes with prescription drugs, indeed I'd expect pharmacists to be nervous about being dragged into making diagnoses!

Woodchopper wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:04 am Pharmacists prescribing antibiotics isn’t necessary idiocy.

UK pharmacists have since 2006 been able to prescribe some prescription medicines including antibiotics if they have received training: https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/educ ... prescriber
https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/arti ... tewardship
Or in defined circumstances via patient group directions:
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/what-is ... ction-pgd/
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/when-to-use-a-pgd-2/

So Coffey may just have got a headline by stating that they are going to do what they have been doing for years. If they are going to extend the service that might not be a bad thing if done properly.

As far as I remember pharmacy prescription happens already in Ireland and other developed countries. Adverse effects can be mitigated by strictly limiting the scope of what they can do and training them in the same protocols that are used by GPs.

Some kind of way of relieving the load on GPs is required in the short run, since GP capacity is very short. So long as whatever is done in the short run does not distract from the long term requirement to increase GP capacity.

But the underlying problem is that the government is unwilling to find a way of putting the health service in a situation that the funding matches the demands on it.

True, but that's a sh.t way of dealing with it, even in the short-term.

IvanV wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:08 am

Woodchopper wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:04 am Pharmacists prescribing antibiotics isn’t necessary idiocy.

UK pharmacists have since 2006 been able to prescribe some prescription medicines including antibiotics if they have received training: https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/educ ... prescriber
https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/arti ... tewardship
Or in defined circumstances via patient group directions:
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/what-is ... ction-pgd/
https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/when-to-use-a-pgd-2/

So Coffey may just have got a headline by stating that they are going to do what they have been doing for years. If they are going to extend the service that might not be a bad thing if done properly.

As far as I remember pharmacy prescription happens already in Ireland and other developed countries. Adverse effects can be mitigated by strictly limiting the scope of what they can do and training them in the same protocols that are used by GPs.

Some kind of way of relieving the load on GPs is required in the short run, since GP capacity is very short. So long as whatever is done in the short run does not distract from the long term requirement to increase GP capacity.

But the underlying problem is that the government is unwilling to find a way of putting the health service in a situation that the funding matches the demands on it.

I agree. However, as there has been a decline in full time equivalent GPs while need has increased, and it takes about a decade to train a new GP, even a short term solution may take many years.

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:08 pm True, but that's a sh.t way of dealing with it, even in the short-term.

This is the crux of the matter I think. The NHS is in crisis, and the health minister's response is to suggest moving some prescribing powers to the private sector, and illegally share medication with your mates (since rolled back).

They haven't got a clue what to do.

The expansion of prescribing pharmacists is not new. The updated (published Jan 2021) accreditation requirements for an MPharm degree and the foundation training year (required to be a newly registered pharmacist) includes prescribing ("incorporating the skills, knowledge and attributes for prescribing, to enable pharmacists to independently prescribe from the point of registration") so that don't have to do an additional course afterwards.

They keep pushing Mrs Waster (Band 6) at work to do her Nurse Prescriber course.

The pitch is "we really think you should do this course, it's very stressful and will increase your workload and if you screw up you'll find yourself in coroner's court but the good news is we won't pay you a penny more to do it than you are already earning".

Needless to say she's not impressed.