Scrutable

Videos posted to social media appear to show Maccabi Tel Aviv fans chanting racist slogans about Arabs and Palestine, as well as climbing on a building to tear down a Palestinian flag on display.

Social media users said the videos were from before the attacks on Israelis. Footage from the stadium also appeared to show Maccabi fans jeering and whistling during a minute's silence for those killed in floods in Valencia.

Grumble wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:59 pm Not sure trouble between football fans counts as a pogrom. Even when innocent parties get caught up in it.

Tristan wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:18 pm

Grumble wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 1:59 pm Not sure trouble between football fans counts as a pogrom. Even when innocent parties get caught up in it.

I mean, you have the mayor of Amsterdam saying that this brought to mind pogroms against Jews in Dutch and European history. This wasn’t just “trouble between football fans”.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:28 pm I mean, it was pretty much trouble between football fans, but with a political edge. Contingents of the Israelis went round the city removing Palestinian flags and burning them, chanted "f.ck Palestine" and "all Arabs need to die", kicked the sh.t out of a taxi driver who confronted them, and demolished the car of another, and acted like total c.nts at the match itself. Then, when retaliation struck, made sure that the focus was on that rather than their terrible behaviour prior to that.

It's hooliganism from the Israelis, plain and simple. Everyone rightly decried it when English fans acted like c.nts at Euro 2020, beating the sh.t out of Danish and Italian fans. It shouldn't be tolerated from anyone else either. It's certainly not a f.cking pogrom.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:28 pm I mean, it was pretty much trouble between football fans, but with a political edge. Contingents of the Israelis went round the city removing Palestinian flags and burning them, chanted "f.ck Palestine" and "all Arabs need to die", kicked the sh.t out of a taxi driver who confronted them, and demolished the car of another, and acted like total c.nts at the match itself.

Tristan wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:17 pm Was there terrible behaviour before? Yes. And that should be condemned too.
But to call what happened last night "hooliganism from the Israelis, plain and simple" is ridiculous

Gfamily wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:16 am Interesting that your first response wasn't to condemn the contingent of supporters of Tel Aviv Maccabi that attacked what they saw as support for the Palestinian people
Was that just 'high spirits' ?

“It's hooliganism from the Israelis, plain and simple.”
“So Israel has racist football hooligans, not just Millwall.”

“it was pretty much trouble between football fans”

Grumble wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:10 pm Saying something isn’t a pogrom isn’t an attempt to minimise but to be more accurate. Calling what happened here a pogrom risks minimising the actual pogroms.

Rich Scopie wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:02 pm The idea that Ajax fans set out to commit anti-Semitic acts of violence is faintly ludicrous.

Tristan wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:07 pm

Rich Scopie wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:02 pm The idea that Ajax fans set out to commit anti-Semitic acts of violence is faintly ludicrous.

Exactly. This is not “trouble between football fans” as others here have claimed.

Tristan wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:28 pm

“So Israel has racist football hooligans, not just Millwall.”

No attempts to deflect or minimise there?

Grumble wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:13 pm

Tristan wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:07 pm

Rich Scopie wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:02 pm The idea that Ajax fans set out to commit anti-Semitic acts of violence is faintly ludicrous.

Exactly. This is not “trouble between football fans” as others here have claimed.

Fair enough it was worse than that. When I went to read the link you posted, the salient thing for me was that they were going around looking for people wearing the “wrong” football kit. I never go to a match wearing kit because sometimes you can become a target which is why that stood out to me. I didn’t see the bit about them asking other people if they were Jewish.

"They shouted 'Jewish, Jewish, IDF, IDF',”

"Some Israeli football fans said they were ordered to show their passports when they were set upon."

"Afterwards, they said they saw men yelling antisemitic threats and stamping on an Israeli man. They intervened, helped the man to his feet, and went to leave.

Shortly after, a group asked the men if they were Jewish, and Aaron said that they were British.

“But they said ‘you helped the Jew’, and he punched me in my face and broke my glasses," Aaron said."

bjn wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:32 pm

Tristan wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 1:28 pm

“So Israel has racist football hooligans, not just Millwall.”

No attempts to deflect or minimise there?

So you are saying that Maccabi fans didn't act in a racist manner and committed unprovoked violence?

Grumble wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 6:49 am This is your reminder that when I talk about trouble between football fans I’m not actually minimising anything.

Tristan wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 8:00 pm I guess it’s open season on catholics in Glasgow now right? That’s how this works isn’t it?

Allo V Psycho wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:01 am

Tristan wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 8:00 pm I guess it’s open season on catholics in Glasgow now right? That’s how this works isn’t it?

I'm a Glaswegian, and live close enough to Celtic Park to hear this happening, but I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this?