Scrutable

So Google has started putting AI generated answers up on the results page. One or two I have actually read had gross errors of fact, the rest were OK but untrustworthy.
I have stopped reading them.
Does anyone else read them?

Hell no.

I'd ignored them, then spotted one that (for a work related search) managed to be so incorrect it stated the opposite of what happens. Now I look for a laugh at them.

I can't help but wonder how many GWh go into providing AI summary search responses that are pretty poor (or just outright wrong)

Brave search has been doing it for a while, but 9 times out of 10 it's quoting Wikipedia, which doesn't take that much intelligence

It seems to be selective about when it does it.

So when I ask it a basic factual question, such as the Q my dad asked the other day, "who was Livia Drusilla" (A: Caesar Augustus' wife), it doesn't do it. Perhaps because you can easily get the answer from the other hits.

But when I ask it a more complex question, it appears and tries ... and fails ... to answer it.

There is a tweak to get Google to go back to Web only search: https://udm14.com/.

No AI summaries with that.

I couldn't find a way of turning it off, so I switched my default search/home page to Duck Duck Go. Only thing I miss and have to go back to sometimes is the google maps stuff.

I’ve been on DDG for a few years now and haven’t used google search ever since, I also use Firefox and not Chrome. I’m using google for my email etc and I’m thinking of flipping to https://proton.me/ for mail and cloud storage.

Hunting Dog wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:42 am I couldn't find a way of turning it off, so I switched my default search/home page to Duck Duck Go. Only thing I miss and have to go back to sometimes is the google maps stuff.

I've found I only get the AI overview when I'm logged in to Google. Which would normally be the case on an Android phone.

bjn wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:07 am I’ve been on DDG for a few years now and haven’t used google search ever since, I also use Firefox and not Chrome. I’m using google for my email etc and I’m thinking of flipping to https://proton.me/ for mail and cloud storage.

I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move

bob sterman wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:42 am

Hunting Dog wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:42 am I couldn't find a way of turning it off, so I switched my default search/home page to Duck Duck Go. Only thing I miss and have to go back to sometimes is the google maps stuff.

I've found I only get the AI overview when I'm logged in to Google. Which would normally be the case on an Android phone.

Ah I tend to be logged in on my PC, I've got a couple of things on Google Sheets and Google Drive due to sharing.

I've only ever used Gmail for things that refused to take anything else as an address. Email I've been using ISP service and download to PC with Pegasus.

discovolante wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:20 pm

bjn wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:07 am I’ve been on DDG for a few years now and haven’t used google search ever since, I also use Firefox and not Chrome. I’m using google for my email etc and I’m thinking of flipping to https://proton.me/ for mail and cloud storage.

I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move

Given that my entire institution is on Google for Government, I don't think it's at risk of collapse too soon.

dyqik wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 1:56 pm

discovolante wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:20 pm

bjn wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:07 am I’ve been on DDG for a few years now and haven’t used google search ever since, I also use Firefox and not Chrome. I’m using google for my email etc and I’m thinking of flipping to https://proton.me/ for mail and cloud storage.

I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move :roll:

Given that my entire institution is on Google for Government, I don't think it's at risk of collapse too soon.

YouTube is also a big cash cow of theirs.

dyqik wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 1:56 pm

discovolante wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:20 pm

bjn wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:07 am I’ve been on DDG for a few years now and haven’t used google search ever since, I also use Firefox and not Chrome. I’m using google for my email etc and I’m thinking of flipping to https://proton.me/ for mail and cloud storage.

I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move

Given that my entire institution is on Google for Government, I don't think it's at risk of collapse too soon.

Well I hope not for your sake

discovolante wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:20 pm I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move

Although (probably) not as big as Amazon Web Services for providing business IT solutions, Google Cloud Platform is a significant player in the market.

Gfamily wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 9:10 pm

discovolante wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:20 pm I suspect Google might well more or less collapse (or perhaps something marginally less dramatic) in the not too distant future...I suspect there's a bit of a brain drain going on at the very least...and I've just started using my Gmail account more often for emails that I actually want to get, which was a smart move

Although (probably) not as big as Amazon Web Services for providing business IT solutions, Google Cloud Platform is a significant player in the market.

I'm not really basing it on people changing their email addresses, although admittedly I'm not being hugely more evidenced based.

By coincidence, over on ISF, there's a current quiz question running which I set, asking what's the second longest scheduled train journey without changes. (I thought the longest was too obvious: the Trans Siberian Railway from Moscow to Vladivostok.)

I Googled it and Google AI immediately confirmed my guess that it was Toronto - Vancouver.

Except it isn't. That only comes 15th on Wikipedia's list of longest train services. Glad I checked further.

Missed the point of a post - apologies

Martin Y wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:46 pm By coincidence, over on ISF, there's a current quiz question running which I set, asking what's the second longest scheduled train journey without changes. (I thought the longest was too obvious: the Trans Siberian Railway from Moscow to Vladivostok.)

I Googled it and Google AI immediately confirmed my guess that it was Toronto - Vancouver.

Except it isn't. That only comes 15th on Wikipedia's list of longest train services. Glad I checked further.

This is interesting. I asked ChatGPT 4o that question, and it answered:

The second longest scheduled train journey in the world, without requiring passengers to change trains, is the Moscow to Vladivostok route operated by Russian Railways. This journey covers approximately 9,259 kilometers (5,754 miles) and takes about 147 hours (roughly six days) to complete.
WIKIPEDIA

The longest such journey is also within Russia, from Moscow to Pyongyang in North Korea, spanning about 10,267 kilometers (6,380 miles) and taking approximately 209 hours (around eight days and 17 hours).

It provided the Wiki list of longest journeys as the source. But when I clicked on the link there was no mention of the Moscow Pyongyang service. But when I looked on the Wiki entry for the Trans Siberian railway I see this:

Taking eight days to complete the journey, it was the third-longest single continuous service in the world,[when?] after the Moscow–Pyongyang service 10,267 kilometers (6,380 mi)[8] and the former Kyiv (Kiev)–Vladivostok service 11,085 kilometers (6,888 mi),[9] both of which also follow the Trans-Siberian for much of their routes.[10]

So GPT did reflect what a source told it, just not the one it linked to.

I've no idea whether the train is still running.

I seem to recall sabotage earlier this year of railway tunnels on the line from Russia to North Korea. I wonder if that was serious enough to have halted the Pyongyang service.

I found the same Wiki page of longest train services and was of course irked to see Vancouver to Toronto a lowly 19th* when Google AI had, for whatever reason, said it was 2nd.

*Not 15th as I wrongly wrote without AI assistance.

Martin Y wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 11:34 pm I seem to recall sabotage earlier this year of railway tunnels on the line from Russia to North Korea. I wonder if that was serious enough to have halted the Pyongyang service.

The line seems to be open, as Moscow-Tumangang (the NK border town after crossing the rail bridge from Khasan in Russia) rail tours are currently on offer from NK organised tour specialists, stating that Russian border formalities are done on train. But it sounds like you stay over-night in Khasan before joining a border crossing train next day. In any case, usually only North Koreans have been able to travel all the way on the (pre-Covid fortnightly) through trains from PY to Moscow, which are operated by NK. It is unclear whether those through trains have restarted since Covid.

It would seem you can't trust Google maps either, the boundary of the village of Lowdham goes very weird and glitchy in the south east corner.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lowdh ... 0vMDg2dGsz

Boustrophedon wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 4:51 pm It would seem you can't trust Google maps either, the boundary of the village of Lowdham goes very weird and glitchy in the south east corner.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lowdh ... 0vMDg2dGsz
Lowdham.JPG

Interesting, the parish boundary isn't what's marked on the map. So I assume that the Google Maps boundary is AI generated (eg based upon housing density and other variables).

As you write, it looks like there's a glitch.

It appears to be the boundary between Caythorpe and Gunthorpe CP’s. Perhaps the area in question is disputed territory, in the same way as my globe used to show Kashmir in pink and green stripes.
Should it come to a conflict I’m siding with Gunthorpe.

Though sometimes, boundaries are like that - witness Baarle-Hertog and Baarle-Nassau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-He ... rle-Nassau