Scrutable

Yes, the USA is in the midst of an epidemic of hyper-stupid when it comes to immigration. The Supreme Ultra-douche (who just won the biggest douche in the universe award) has ratcheted up immigrant-phobia to new heights. Mexicans, he claims, are the cause of...

The fall of the Roman empire
The sinking of the Titanic
The 1958 Edsel

Meanwhile, saint andy fakefield is welcomed, and is both making money and helping Texans elect even more completely douche-aryan asswipes to office.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2019/02/21/an ... exas-13830

Yes, I put aryan in there for a reason. It's because the root of the backlash against immigrants is the extreme butt-hurt-ness of the remnants of the 'South.' Or, as I like to refer to them, 'bitter old white guys.' May what's left of their shriveled old balls rot off.

Of course it's well known that I'm extremely sympathetic to anyone who comes to the US from Mexico or South America. Mexicans, in my experience, are generally peaceful, hard working, generous and gracious people. Plus the food... Damn I love the food! We could do FAR worse than to allow these often desperate people into the US.

Case in point, st andy. Gets dethroned in the UK for his artiodactyl/perrisodactyl coprolyte ungulate excrement, so he comes over here. Really it's a shame that blasting these antivax douchebags directly into the center of the sun isn't already a routine matter.

Please pitch in twenty for my bail should I ever run into him, because I could at least hypothetically wind up testing how good my ol' left-right combo is still working.

Ps. I have a theory of Mexican food: bars on the windows, ugly paint? That's where you go. My fav of many examples is Rolando's super tacos. I've been going there going on 33 years. And they just repainted it the same two colors, purple and lima bean green.

It’s Al! Look it’s Al ... Al!

And he’s sober ... well relatively.

Little waster wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:49 pm
And he’s sober ... well relatively.

Let's not go making any wild accusations now.

Little waster wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:49 pm It’s Al! Look it’s Al ... Al!

And he’s sober ... well relatively.

Al appeared here just as my work desktop updated Windows, rebooted, and then immediately told me that the network cable was broken.

dyqik wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:55 pm

Little waster wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:49 pm It’s Al! Look it’s Al ... Al!

And he’s sober ... well relatively.

Al appeared here just as my work desktop updated Windows, rebooted, and then immediately told me that the network cable was broken.

I have an image of Al walking into your office in socks and putting his boots on.

Al Capone Junior wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:14 pm Ps. I have a theory of Mexican food: bars on the windows, ugly paint? That's where you go. My fav of many examples is Rolando's super tacos. I've been going there going on 33 years. And they just repainted it the same two colors, purple and lima bean green.

This is correct. It often also works for pubs in England and restaurants in Portugal.

I think there's a few reasons. One is that, if a place can stay open without looking flashy or advertising much, it obviously attracts a loyal clientele due to its quality and/or ambience.

Also, by the time a place is old and tatty you know it's been open for a long time, so is probably not sh.t. Or it's sustained by money laundering/is a front for organised crime

Pink and lime green are the best colours for Mexican restaurants.

Turquoise is probably next on that list.

All the colours that Taco Bell isn't, really.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:32 am All the colours that Taco Bell isn't, really.

Taco Bell has a particular purpose. It's not Mexican food or even really Tex-Mex, but it's not not Tex-Mex either.

It's got decent veggie options for service station type food (pre Impossible Whopper, etc.).

Is there any data on the colour of people being deported? We know its been really hard on Hispanic/Brown people. What about white immigrants from eastern europe or places like that, are they being deported?

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:52 am Is there any data on the colour of people being deported? We know its been really hard on Hispanic/Brown people. What about white immigrants from eastern europe or places like that, are they being deported?

Some data here. Not surprisingly, the vast majority are from Mexico, because the US shares a long and fairly porous land border with Mexico, so that's where most of the immigrants who enter illegally come from. Immigrants from Eastern Europe are much fewer in number to start with, and they nearly all arrive legally.

No doubt there's plenty of racism in US immigration policy and practices, but that's not the main factor in the gross numbers of people deported. If you look at Table 9, for example, the top ten nationalities for "aliens returned" include Canada, Russia, and Ukraine, but no African countries. I don't think anyone would argue that there's more official discrimination against Canucks and Slavs than against Africans.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:06 am

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:52 am Is there any data on the colour of people being deported? We know its been really hard on Hispanic/Brown people. What about white immigrants from eastern europe or places like that, are they being deported?

Some data here. Not surprisingly, the vast majority are from Mexico, because the US shares a long and fairly porous land border with Mexico, so that's where most of the immigrants who enter illegally come from. Immigrants from Eastern Europe are much fewer in number to start with, and they nearly all arrive legally.

No doubt there's plenty of racism in US immigration policy and practices, but that's not the main factor in the gross numbers of people deported. If you look at Table 9, for example, the top ten nationalities for "aliens returned" include Canada, Russia, and Ukraine, but no African countries. I don't think anyone would argue that there's more official discrimination against Canucks and Slavs than against Africans.

Okay thanks.That is a bit different from the impression I had from the news.
Under Trump is the US still allowing immigration from non white countries? Or is it being phased out?

No, of course there is no ban on nonwhite immigration. According to this, in Q1 FY2019, the top six countries of origin for newly naturalized US citizens were Mexico, India, the Philippines, the People’s Republic of China, Cuba, and Vietnam.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:02 am No, of course there is no ban on nonwhite immigration. According to this, in Q1 FY2019, the top six countries of origin for newly naturalized US citizens were Mexico, India, the Philippines, the People’s Republic of China, Cuba, and Vietnam.

Hmmm.I'd been seeing stuff in the media saying that rather than change existing laws, the trump admin had been tweaking existing regulations and interpreting them in more rigorous ways to limit immigration, especially from non favoured countries. I mean there was the muslim ban which was only partially implemented after court challenges- but it was more than that.

But maybe newly naturalized citizens are not a good measure, as those people would have entered the country several years prior. Has there been any moves to stop naturalizations of non white immigrants? Can green card holders be deported back to their countries of origin?

It looks like that was only part of the picture and America is still allowing lots of immigrants from Latin America and Asia mostly.

I wonder how long that will last?

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:23 am

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:02 am No, of course there is no ban on nonwhite immigration. According to this, in Q1 FY2019, the top six countries of origin for newly naturalized US citizens were Mexico, India, the Philippines, the People’s Republic of China, Cuba, and Vietnam.

Hmmm.I'd been seeing stuff in the media saying that rather than change existing laws, the trump admin had been tweaking existing regulations and interpreting them in more rigorous ways to limit immigration, especially from non favoured countries. I mean there was the muslim ban which was only partially implemented after court challenges- but it was more than that.

But maybe newly naturalized citizens are not a good measure, as those people would have entered the country several years prior. Has there been any moves to stop naturalizations of non white immigrants? Can green card holders be deported back to their countries of origin?

It looks like that was only part of the picture and America is still allowing lots of immigrants from Latin America and Asia mostly.

I wonder how long that will last?

And it's noticeable to consider the religious make-up of those top 6 countries:

Mexico: ~85% Catholic, ~10% Protestant
Philippines: ~80% Catholic, ~10% Protestant
Cuba: ~60% Catholic, 5% Protestant
India: ~80% Hindu, ~15% Muslim (who probably aren't those entering the US)
China: ~75% non-religious (officially), ~15% Buddhist
Vietnam: ~75% non-religious, ~15% Buddhist

Apart from the Republican's WASP base probably wishing that there were more protestants and fewer papists in that list, it's noticeable that the list above have few Muslims.

I don't know whether the list of countries newly naturalised citizens were from has changed since 2015/6. If it has, it'd be a show of the Trump admin tweaking the entry rules. Of course, if it hasn't changed since then, then I'd have to question why the Trump administration made such a fuss over the Muslim ban. (Other than overt pandering to the base!)

There are certainly new limits on asylum applications at the southern border. Metering (restrictions on the number of applications that can be printed in a day, regardless of the number received) and the "first safe country" rule (requiring asylum seekers to apply first in unsafe countries south of the USA that don't have the infrastructure to process large volumes of applications, nor to resettle people) has left thousands of central Americans trapped in camps along the Mexican border, living in tents and getting robbed and raped.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:06 am

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:52 am Is there any data on the colour of people being deported? We know its been really hard on Hispanic/Brown people. What about white immigrants from eastern europe or places like that, are they being deported?

Some data here. Not surprisingly, the vast majority are from Mexico, because the US shares a long and fairly porous land border with Mexico, so that's where most of the immigrants who enter illegally come from. Immigrants from Eastern Europe are much fewer in number to start with, and they nearly all arrive legally.

This is a bit of a misleading answer, as the majority of deportable immigrants are people who entered legally and then overstayed their visas. But funnily enough people with enough money to enter via an airport generally aren't being rounded up by ICE, put into campus and having their kids taken away.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:50 am
This is a bit of a misleading answer, as the majority of deportable immigrants are people who entered legally and then overstayed their visas. But funnily enough people with enough money to enter via an airport generally aren't being rounded up by ICE, put into campus and having their kids taken away.

So Brown people who enter illegally by land are rounded up, caged and deported, while white visa overstayers who enter by air get away with it.

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:10 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:50 am
This is a bit of a misleading answer, as the majority of deportable immigrants are people who entered legally and then overstayed their visas. But funnily enough people with enough money to enter via an airport generally aren't being rounded up by ICE, put into campus and having their kids taken away.

So Brown people who enter illegally by land are rounded up, caged and deported, while white visa overstayers who enter by air get away with it.

White people who enter illegally by land get rounded up too.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/15/77032174 ... 6138125628
FWIW I don’t believe the family’s protestations are genuine at all.

Grumble wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:10 am

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:10 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:50 am
This is a bit of a misleading answer, as the majority of deportable immigrants are people who entered legally and then overstayed their visas. But funnily enough people with enough money to enter via an airport generally aren't being rounded up by ICE, put into campus and having their kids taken away.

So Brown people who enter illegally by land are rounded up, caged and deported, while white visa overstayers who enter by air get away with it.

White people who enter illegally by land get rounded up too.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/15/77032174 ... 6138125628
FWIW I don’t believe the family’s protestations are genuine at all.

There are, however, not many of them to start with, and generally speaking English and having the cash for lawyers makes it much easier to a) apply legally in the first place, and b) deal with being caught and ordered to leave without too much trouble.

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:10 am So Brown people who enter illegally by land are rounded up, caged and deported, while white visa overstayers who enter by air get away with it.

People who enter illegally by land are much easier to round up. They are overwhelmingly nonwhite because geography. The way many of them are treated is obviously reprehensible. Rounding up visa overstayers is difficult and expensive, because they could be anywhere in the country. I suspect they are also majority nonwhite, but I haven't looked up actual numbers.

You seem to be under the impression that there are vast numbers of white immigrants legally eligible for deportation that the government is choosing not to deport. This is simply wrong.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:10 am So Brown people who enter illegally by land are rounded up, caged and deported, while white visa overstayers who enter by air get away with it.

People who enter illegally by land are much easier to round up. They are overwhelmingly nonwhite because geography. The way many of them are treated is obviously reprehensible. Rounding up visa overstayers is difficult and expensive, because they could be anywhere in the country. I suspect they are also majority nonwhite, but I haven't looked up actual numbers.

You seem to be under the impression that there are vast numbers of white immigrants legally eligible for deportation that the government is choosing not to deport. This is simply wrong.

Not least because white immigrants are much more likely to have entered legally*, from where they can more easily get into visa statuses where they are allowed to stay while waiting for USCIS to process applications to stay (whether they've overstayed or before their visa expires). There's just not that many white immigrants who have entered illegally, which is significantly different to overstayers in terms of enforcement and options to get extended legal status while in the country.

There's the whole thing with Greencard applications and being able to renew time-expiring visas while waiting for Greencard numbers to become available which cuts down on the numbers of overstayers who arrive legally for employment in the first place.

*In that illegal entry immigrants are overwhelmingly not-white.

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:20 pm
You seem to be under the impression that there are vast numbers of white immigrants legally eligible for deportation that the government is choosing not to deport. This is simply wrong.

I think that could well be the case.

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:28 pm

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:20 pm
You seem to be under the impression that there are vast numbers of white immigrants legally eligible for deportation that the government is choosing not to deport. This is simply wrong.

I think that could well be the case.

This forum is specifically dedicated to not just going with prejudices like this, and instead looking at the evidence.

dyqik wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:36 pm

Herainestold wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:28 pm

bolo wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:20 pm
You seem to be under the impression that there are vast numbers of white immigrants legally eligible for deportation that the government is choosing not to deport. This is simply wrong.

I think that could well be the case.

This forum is specifically dedicated to not just going with prejudices like this, and instead looking at the evidence.

Okay, yes, but the evidence is far from clear and some of it is hidden from prying eyes.