Scrutable

Well well.

Nothing to say at the moment, just starting a thread.

I am just responding to your thread. I have nothing to say either. I await commentary on the matter.

Don't forget that the results so far are just the first bit ie first preference votes
Lots more counting still to do

Seems that disenfranchised people burdened by a cost of living that’s ignored by policy have voted for nutters. Where have we seen this before?

Are these universal economic conditions now, for capitalist economies?

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:50 am Seems that disenfranchised people burdened by a cost of living that’s ignored by policy have voted for nutters. Where have we seen this before?

Are these universal economic conditions now, for capitalist economies?

One man's nutter is another man's freedom fighter.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:34 am I am just responding to your thread. I have nothing to say either. I await commentary on the matter.

Thank you for input.
I intend to listen to a podcast on the matter in the near future, at which point I will be fully informed and qualified to comment in detail on this issue.

discovolante wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:29 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:34 am I am just responding to your thread. I have nothing to say either. I await commentary on the matter.

Thank you for input.
I intend to listen to a podcast on the matter in the near future, at which point I will be fully informed and qualified to comment in detail on this issue.

I plan on just wading in with a combination of ill-informed prejudices, half-remembered factoids and barely coherent misconceptions... like every other thread.

I see they've got one of those voting systems that's unfair (© David Cameron).

All the votes got counted yesterday, but today some of them are being counted again!!

cvb wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:24 am

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:50 am Seems that disenfranchised people burdened by a cost of living that’s ignored by policy have voted for nutters. Where have we seen this before?

Are these universal economic conditions now, for capitalist economies?

One man's nutter is another man's freedom fighter.

Yes, Trump and Farage are both perceived in this way by their supporters, as are the far right parties across Europe, in Brazil, Turkey etc.

Their election is driven by the same things each time, unfairness and a disconnect. Because this is becoming increasingly common I’m wondering specifically what has happened economically to cause it.

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:16 pm

cvb wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:24 am

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:50 am Seems that disenfranchised people burdened by a cost of living that’s ignored by policy have voted for nutters. Where have we seen this before?

Are these universal economic conditions now, for capitalist economies?

One man's nutter is another man's freedom fighter.

Yes, Trump and Farage are both perceived in this way by their supporters, as are the far right parties across Europe, in Brazil, Turkey etc.

Their election is driven by the same things each time, unfairness and a disconnect. Because this is becoming increasingly common I’m wondering specifically what has happened economically to cause it.

Is it "The Age of Leisure"? In that I remember discussion in the past about how beneficially the post-working classes would enjoy their leisure time, when mechanisation and robotisation and computerisation freed them from the burden of work, but increased productivity meant they could still enjoy the steadily increasing standard of living they had experienced up till then?

Instead they may perceive the wealth corralled by small numbers of multi-billionaires, and work increasingly casualised and poorly paid: there may be more jobs, but that may be because people need to work several.

Or is it the loss of hope? My parents and I were always confident that they and I would enjoy a steadily increasing standard of living: my children and I fear strongly that they and I will endure a steadily falling standard of living, and their chances of, for instance, owning property are almost nil.

Allo V Psycho wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:46 pm

Is it "The Age of Leisure"? In that I remember discussion in the past about how beneficially the post-working classes would enjoy their leisure time, when mechanisation and robotisation and computerisation freed them from the burden of work, but increased productivity meant they could still enjoy the steadily increasing standard of living they had experienced up till then?

Something that's almost struck me as odd is that productivity in the UK is reportedly poor, and I wonder why that is, what it means, and whether it's to do with a lot of work now being tangentially value-add (brand development, marketing, flim-flam) rather than a core product.

As for the rest of your post, I agree that it's difficult to invest in property, but conversely it's never been easier to invest in the stock market for example - although that's definitely perceived to be far higher risk.

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:16 pm

cvb wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:24 am

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:50 am Seems that disenfranchised people burdened by a cost of living that’s ignored by policy have voted for nutters. Where have we seen this before?

Are these universal economic conditions now, for capitalist economies?

One man's nutter is another man's freedom fighter.

Yes, Trump and Farage are both perceived in this way by their supporters, as are the far right parties across Europe, in Brazil, Turkey etc.

Their election is driven by the same things each time, unfairness and a disconnect. Because this is becoming increasingly common I’m wondering specifically what has happened economically to cause it.

Democracy has failed to deliver the goods, as the rich get richer and the middle class withers away. People are frustrated and looking for answers increasingly vote for more extreme alternatives, either on the right or the left.

It's a pronoun, used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.

I don’t understand what you mean, either. f.ck this, you all think you’re geniuses or something.

Final seat count

Fianna Fail - 38

Sinn Fein - 37

Fine Gael - 35

Independents - 19

Green Party - 12

Labour Party - 6

Social Democrats - 6

Solidarity-People Before Profit - 5

Aontu - 1

Others - 1

Would have been nice to have a local view point; someone like Temptar. Shame that some demented duck pissed her off so much

I assume it's Sinn Fein being referred to as nutters?

Is that because of the IRA stuff 20+ years ago, or are their current policies considerably nuttier than those of the other two big parties?

Allo V Psycho wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:30 am Final seat count

Fianna Fail - 38

Sinn Fein - 37

Fine Gael - 35

Independents - 19

Green Party - 12

Labour Party - 6

Social Democrats - 6

Solidarity-People Before Profit - 5

Aontu - 1

Others - 1

Sinn Féin’s declaration of victory seems a bit premature now. That they came within 1 seat of being the largest party is remarkable though, and still with a chance of forming the government.

I’ve split the corporate governance posts into their own thread

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=859

Good to see a proper voting system in action too, none of this safe seat stuff.

SF got 24.5% of 1st preference votes and 23.1% of seats. FF got 22.2% v 23.7%; FG got 20.9% v 21.9%

(SF were running fewer candidates in the multi-seat constituencies, to maximise their 1st preferences at the expense of fewer 2nd preferences.)

plodder wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:20 pm
Something that's almost struck me as odd is that productivity in the UK is reportedly poor, and I wonder why that is, what it means, and whether it's to do with a lot of work now being tangentially value-add (brand development, marketing, flim-flam) rather than a core product.

I think the answer is that nobody knows. Googling for "Four theories to explain the UK’s productivity woes" should bring up an FT article with some guesses as to why it's so poor (low capital investment, using the wrong measurement(s), low interest rates, high employment rate).

And basically the same in the Conversation here: http://theconversation.com/debunking-th ... blem-88042 with references to the above guesses plus a stab at "poor skills".

The UK’s productivity fall was steeper and its rebound weaker than in comparison countries.

This might be due to a number of reasons: low capital investment, poor skills, the high employment rate and low interest rates keeping inefficient companies afloat. No single explanation is currently winning the day. I would, however, urge readers to think about which measure of productivity is being used and what it means the next time we are told that the UK’s economic woes are due to poor productivity.