Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

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Allo V Psycho
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Allo V Psycho » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:32 pm

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but don't know where else it might go

American Congresspeople carrying guns onto the floor of the House:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... g-n1255237

cf Charles Dickens in 1843
So it was with these gentlemen. He was the greatest patriot, in their eyes, who brawled the loudest, and who cared the least for decency. He was their champion who, in the brutal fury of his own pursuit, could cast no stigma upon them for the hot knavery of theirs. Thus, Martin learned in the five minutes’ straggling talk about the stove, that to carry pistols into legislative assemblies......were glowing deeds.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by bmforre » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:57 am

First reported by NYTimes, followed up by WaPo just now:
DT would change AG to gain support for putsch
Then-President Donald Trump in early January entertained a plan to replace the acting attorney general with a different Justice Department lawyer who was more amenable to pursuing his unfounded claims of voter fraud, nearly touching off a crisis at the country’s premier federal law enforcement institution, people familiar with the matter said.
The times they are a-changing.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:02 am

The delay in starting the trial looks to have been engineered by both D's and McConnell to give time for more evidence and reasons to impeach.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by FlammableFlower » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:13 am

dyqik wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:02 am
The delay in starting the trial looks to have been engineered by both D's and McConnell to give time for more evidence and reasons to impeach.
Considering just how much he tried to get away with, they probably do need time to collate and collect the evidence against him. So much stuff keeps coming out.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:01 am

I'll put pardon stuff in here, since it's clearly a high crime matter.

Looks like Trump's recent pardons of just about everyone but Flynn are narrow, and leave open additional charges against the defendants.

https://www.justsecurity.org/74241/the- ... e-justice/

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 pm


Nearly every Senate Republican declared Tuesday that putting a former president on trial for impeachment is unconstitutional, indicating that the House’s case against Donald Trump is almost certain to fail.

The procedural vote, forced by Sen. Rand Paul, underscores the significant hurdles facing the House’s impeachment managers, who will need to convince at least 17 Republican senators in order to secure a conviction. Paul’s motion to declare the trial unconstitutional ultimately failed because Democrats opposed it; however, 45 GOP senators voted to affirm the Kentucky Republican's view, delivering an early and possibly fatal blow to the House’s case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/2 ... ent-462655

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 pm

Nearly every Senate Republican declared Tuesday that putting a former president on trial for impeachment is unconstitutional, indicating that the House’s case against Donald Trump is almost certain to fail.

The procedural vote, forced by Sen. Rand Paul, underscores the significant hurdles facing the House’s impeachment managers, who will need to convince at least 17 Republican senators in order to secure a conviction. Paul’s motion to declare the trial unconstitutional ultimately failed because Democrats opposed it; however, 45 GOP senators voted to affirm the Kentucky Republican's view, delivering an early and possibly fatal blow to the House’s case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/2 ... ent-462655
That's a last ditch attempt to avoid having evidence presented every night on the news. Evidence may change the political calculus considerably...

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lpm
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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by lpm » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:19 pm

Leahy in hospital.

He's the new President pro tempore now the Democrats are in. Supposed to be the judge at trial. He's 80.

He's from Vermont, which has a Republican governor.

Don't die, mate. And America - stop giving power to very old men.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Vertigowooyay » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:19 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 pm

Nearly every Senate Republican declared Tuesday that putting a former president on trial for impeachment is unconstitutional, indicating that the House’s case against Donald Trump is almost certain to fail.

The procedural vote, forced by Sen. Rand Paul, underscores the significant hurdles facing the House’s impeachment managers, who will need to convince at least 17 Republican senators in order to secure a conviction. Paul’s motion to declare the trial unconstitutional ultimately failed because Democrats opposed it; however, 45 GOP senators voted to affirm the Kentucky Republican's view, delivering an early and possibly fatal blow to the House’s case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/2 ... ent-462655
That's a last ditch attempt to avoid having evidence presented every night on the news. Evidence may change the political calculus considerably...
I wish I could believe you and that better natures will win out. But they won’t. Some of them like Cruz and Hawley are out and out fascists now, but others - more than the 12 more needed to convict - are just cowards, terrified of the base they helped whip up.
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:25 pm

It's what it does to the 20 Rs up for reelection in '22. It's 17 need to convict, btw.

Meanwhile, the president pro tem of the Senate, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) was sworn in today, and then later taken to hospital for observation after feeling ill.

Which means the Dems don't have a majority until he can return, and he's supposed to preside when Harris isn't there.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Vertigowooyay » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:29 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:25 pm
It's what it does to the 20 Rs up for reelection in '22. It's 17 need to convict, btw.

Meanwhile, the president pro tem of the Senate, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) was sworn in today, and then later taken to hospital for observation after feeling ill.

Which means the Dems don't have a majority until he can return, and he's supposed to preside when Harris isn't there.
I know it’s 17 to convict. I was - possibly optimistically -assuming the 5 who didn’t vote to throw the impeachment out may be more motivated to convict.
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:16 am

dyqik wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:25 pm
Meanwhile, the president pro tem of the Senate, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) was sworn in today, and then later taken to hospital for observation after feeling ill.

Which means the Dems don't have a majority until he can return, and he's supposed to preside when Harris isn't there.
Now out of hospital.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:22 am

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:19 pm
dyqik wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm
That's a last ditch attempt to avoid having evidence presented every night on the news. Evidence may change the political calculus considerably...
I wish I could believe you and that better natures will win out. But they won’t. Some of them like Cruz and Hawley are out and out fascists now, but others - more than the 12 more needed to convict - are just cowards, terrified of the base they helped whip up.
I agree. Only 10 Republican members of the house voted to impeach. 197 voted no (and 4 didn’t vote). That’s the mood of the party.

We’re not going to see 17 Republican senators vote to impeach on the current evidence.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Herainestold » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:25 am

America is going to end up as a right wing dictatorship. You can see it developing.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by JQH » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:24 am

Herainestold wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:25 am
America is going to end up as a right wing dictatorship. You can see it developing.
I suspects bits of the post civil war former USA will be.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by tenchboy » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:30 am

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, when she announced her running for local office, was quoted effectively as saying 'lets put an end to all this helping people and looking after people, lets do away with rules and decency...'

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by cvb » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:18 am

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:29 pm
dyqik wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:25 pm
It's what it does to the 20 Rs up for reelection in '22. It's 17 need to convict, btw.

Meanwhile, the president pro tem of the Senate, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) was sworn in today, and then later taken to hospital for observation after feeling ill.

Which means the Dems don't have a majority until he can return, and he's supposed to preside when Harris isn't there.
I know it’s 17 to convict. I was - possibly optimistically -assuming the 5 who didn’t vote to throw the impeachment out may be more motivated to convict.
Unfortunately they are not going to convict the c.nt, but it was nice of 5 of them to break ranks.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:06 pm

I hope the Biden administration is looking hard at making effective rules that end presidential impunity, because what with the emoluments and escaping impeachment it seems that everything Trump did as prez is legally fine, and (IMHO) some of it probably shouldn't have been.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by jdc » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:56 pm

Donald Trump's former staff are having a difficult time finding jobs due to their association with the former president, according to reports from aides.

Politico spoke with former White House officials for the report.

According to the report, some former Trump staffers had job offers revoked from them in the wake of the Capitol insurrection that left five people dead and resulted in the second impeachment of the recently ousted president.

The aide that spoke with Politico said that Mr Trump has done little to help his former staffers find work.
"They are really f******. The Hill scramble, one of the few places where they'd be welcomed, already happened a month or so ago … They were told over and over to take their hand off the hot stove, and they didn't want to listen," an official said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 92495.html

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Herainestold » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:09 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:06 pm
I hope the Biden administration is looking hard at making effective rules that end presidential impunity, because what with the emoluments and escaping impeachment it seems that everything Trump did as prez is legally fine, and (IMHO) some of it probably shouldn't have been.
I dont think there is much they can do without changing the Constitution.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:34 pm

There probably is, but in any case the last 4 years have been sufficiently obnoxious that amending the Constitution might actually be worth pursuing.

If enough Republicans won't vote for it, Biden should start breaking the exact same rules and donating all the money he steals to gay black trans eco-socialist collectives.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:06 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:34 pm
If enough Republicans won't vote for it, Biden should start breaking the exact same rules and donating all the money he steals to gay black trans eco-socialist collectives.
You're making a very rash assumption there that Republicans aren't duplicitous hypocrites, and can be shamed.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:26 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:06 pm
I hope the Biden administration is looking hard at making effective rules that end presidential impunity, because what with the emoluments and escaping impeachment it seems that everything Trump did as prez is legally fine, and (IMHO) some of it probably shouldn't have been.
The one that gets me is the pardon power. Apparently based on the power of English kings by the founders. Thus kept getting mentioned with interest in who Trump might pardon. It surprised me, first that they chose to mimic that power when they wanted a break from monarchy, but secondly that they've kept tbe presidential pardon power.

In the UK hasn't it withered away amongst all of those royal prerogative powers that never get used?

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by jdc » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:50 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:26 pm

In the UK hasn't it withered away amongst all of those royal prerogative powers that never get used?
According to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_pre ... e_of_mercy
Officially, this is a power of the monarch. Formally, in Commonwealth realms, this has been delegated to the governor-general of the realm, which in practice means to government ministers who advise the monarch or viceroy, usually those responsible for justice. Specifically, it has been delegated to the Lord Chancellor in England and Wales, the Scottish Ministers in Scotland, and the federal and provincial cabinets in Canada, in respect of federal and provincial offences.
Includes an example from 2020 so still being used apparently, just not by the monarch.

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Re: Impeachment 2: Higher Crimes and Misdemeanors

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:34 am

Seems like the usage has diverged quite a bit between America and the UK over the years

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