Plan C

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shpalman
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Plan C

Post by shpalman » Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:05 pm

molto tricky

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: Plan C

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:21 pm

Is there a plan which stops maskless tw.ts walking directly into you while talking on the phone or to their friends loudly and spreading f.cking plague everywhere? Because I’m starting to get really pissed off with it.
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

OffTheRock
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Re: Plan C

Post by OffTheRock » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:46 pm

“I think what Patrick saying is always ... oint yet.”

With every ambulance trust in the country on black alert, ambulances queueing outside EDs and a lot of trusts currently experiencing extreme pressures, what exactly would be the right time to act? What is the criteria that makes them think 'this is bad, we should probably try and do something'? And those problems are occurring now based on case figures from 2-3 weeks ago I'd guess. It's going to get worse before it gets better because cases have gone up since then so admissions are still going to go up.

This government seem to actively want people to die. It doesn't seem to be at all bothered whether it's from covid or whether it's from something else that you might have survived if you weren't in the back of an ambulance in a queue outside ED.

I can genuinely believe that they haven't thought about plan C though.

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lpm
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Re: Plan C

Post by lpm » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:44 pm

Why is the current situation worse than early September? Covid hospitalizations were higher then, is it that other things are higher now?
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

OffTheRock
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Re: Plan C

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:51 am

lpm wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:44 pm
Why is the current situation worse than early September? Covid hospitalizations were higher then, is it that other things are higher now?
Other things were bad then too, but we’ve been bouncing in and out of black alert since August. And covid issues in hospital are more than just the the number of people in a bed.

For obvious reasons you can’t stick covid patients in normal wards, the need to go on a ‘hot’ ward. You have 28 beds on a ward and 28 covid patients, you are fine. You get 4 more admissions that day and you have to shut another whole ward which gives you 56 beds for 32 patients but the rest of the beds can’t be used for non covid patients. We have 20 fewer covid patients than we did when we peaked last month, but it’s still taking out 2 wards that would in non covid timesvwould be in use. And the number of patients has started rising again.
In addition to that, high cases outside hospital increase the chances of non-covid patients being admitted who have been exposed, but are yet contagious starting an outbreak on a non-covid ward. It also means that despite almost all of our staff being vaccinated, we have a lot of staff off with Covid. And a lot more staff off because their school age children have covid. And staff off because of burn out.
A huge shortage of care home staffing, (part covid, part not covid) means we have a huge number of patients that could be discharged, but have nowhere to go. And because of the waiting lists and not being able to do routine stuff during the last covid peaks, the patients that do come through the door are sicker and more complex and need longer in hospital.

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Re: Plan C

Post by Herainestold » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am

We really need to reduce community transmission. What is the best way to do that?
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

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jdc
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Re: Plan C

Post by jdc » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
We really need to reduce community transmission. What is the best way to do that?
A Sun-Thu lockdown.

I wouldn't have to go into work and I could still do Friday pub and Saturday football. 21 Nov to 6 Dec would also be OK as I've nothing in the diary at the mo.

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Re: Plan C

Post by Herainestold » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:40 pm

jdc wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
We really need to reduce community transmission. What is the best way to do that?
A Sun-Thu lockdown.

I wouldn't have to go into work and I could still do Friday pub and Saturday football. 21 Nov to 6 Dec would also be OK as I've nothing in the diary at the mo.
Yes, I will recommend that it is designed around your schedule, please submit your calendar.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

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jdc
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Re: Plan C

Post by jdc » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:53 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:40 pm
jdc wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
We really need to reduce community transmission. What is the best way to do that?
A Sun-Thu lockdown.

I wouldn't have to go into work and I could still do Friday pub and Saturday football. 21 Nov to 6 Dec would also be OK as I've nothing in the diary at the mo.
Yes, I will recommend that it is designed around your schedule, please submit your calendar.
5th Nov and 17 Dec are the two crucial dates to avoid. Please also try to avoid locking down 30 Oct, 4-7 Nov, 14 Nov, 20 Nov, 7 & 11 Dec, 26 Dec.

We can close schools, as I don't have any childcare responsibilities. Bring back masks as I'm not fussed about wearing one. Proof of vaccine to enter venues is OK cos I've got my letter.

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shpalman
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Re: Plan C

Post by shpalman » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm

Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
molto tricky

Herainestold
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Re: Plan C

Post by Herainestold » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:04 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
I would leave and live somewhere safer in a heart beat, if I could.

But yeah, I wouldn't blame EU countries if they banned UK people.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

OffTheRock
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Re: Plan C

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:10 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
Not even if I've had 3 jabs? I fancy a trip somewhere with a bit less covid than here. Which should leave most of the world to choose from.

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shpalman
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Re: Plan C

Post by shpalman » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:21 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:10 pm
shpalman wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
Not even if I've had 3 jabs? I fancy a trip somewhere with a bit less covid than here. Which should leave most of the world to choose from.
Oh it's got nothing to do with covid.
molto tricky

Herainestold
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Re: Plan C

Post by Herainestold » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:17 pm

I agree. We absolutely should not need to consider a Plan C, one in which we shut stuff down, stop people seeing their loved ones, close the pubs, ruin Christmas. And we can make it all but certain that we don’t have to do that if we take small, sensible precautions now. Hopefully enough elderly people will stand in cold car parks to get their boosters; but let’s not rely on it entirely.
I disagree. If we were to implement plan C now we could nip this thing in the bud and guarantee a reasonable Christmas with only minor restrictions.

https://unherd.com/2021/10/how-we-can-e ... christmas/
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

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shpalman
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Re: Plan C

Post by shpalman » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:20 pm

molto tricky

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jdc
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Re: Plan C

Post by jdc » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:57 pm

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1452920527945969665
% of English people who would support bringing back...

Masks on transport: 81%
Masks in shops: 76%
Social distancing in pubs/restaurants: 67%
2m rule: 59%
Rule of 6 indoors: 42%
No large events: 42%
No household mixing indoors: 30%
Full lockdown: 20%
The proportion who'd support bringing back masks in shops seems to be a lot larger than the proportion of people voluntarily wearing masks in the shops I've been in. Ditto transport.

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jdc
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Re: Plan C

Post by jdc » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:31 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:17 pm
I agree. We absolutely should not need to consider a Plan C, one in which we shut stuff down, stop people seeing their loved ones, close the pubs, ruin Christmas. And we can make it all but certain that we don’t have to do that if we take small, sensible precautions now. Hopefully enough elderly people will stand in cold car parks to get their boosters; but let’s not rely on it entirely.
I disagree. If we were to implement plan C now we could nip this thing in the bud and guarantee a reasonable Christmas with only minor restrictions.

https://unherd.com/2021/10/how-we-can-e ... christmas/
Amazing comment from Graham Stull btl. Vaccines suppressing the production of T- and B-cell immunity was m' favourite bit. Whole thing under a spoiler for those too lazy to open the link and scroll down.

Spoiler:

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Plan C

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:25 am

jdc wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:53 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:40 pm
jdc wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 pm
A Sun-Thu lockdown.

I wouldn't have to go into work and I could still do Friday pub and Saturday football. 21 Nov to 6 Dec would also be OK as I've nothing in the diary at the mo.
Yes, I will recommend that it is designed around your schedule, please submit your calendar.
5th Nov and 17 Dec are the two crucial dates to avoid. Please also try to avoid locking down 30 Oct, 4-7 Nov, 14 Nov, 20 Nov, 7 & 11 Dec, 26 Dec.

We can close schools, as I don't have any childcare responsibilities. Bring back masks as I'm not fussed about wearing one. Proof of vaccine to enter venues is OK cos I've got my letter.
I'm not even sure when I'm meant to be wearing a mask to be honest. (Portugal)

I just put mine on when I'm inside. Staff have to wear them so it's only fair I do to. But it's a bit weird sitting masked in a restaurant till the food arrives.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Plan C

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:27 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
Not even if I've had 3 jabs? I fancy a trip somewhere with a bit less covid than here. Which should leave most of the world to choose from.
[/quote]

Portugal is happy to have you! But hurry up because the weather's turning crap on Friday and then we'll all have to breathe your diseased Plague Island breath.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

Herainestold
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Re: Plan C

Post by Herainestold » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:55 am

jdc wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:57 pm
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1452920527945969665
% of English people who would support bringing back...

Masks on transport: 81%
Masks in shops: 76%
Social distancing in pubs/restaurants: 67%
2m rule: 59%
Rule of 6 indoors: 42%
No large events: 42%
No household mixing indoors: 30%
Full lockdown: 20%
The proportion who'd support bringing back masks in shops seems to be a lot larger than the proportion of people voluntarily wearing masks in the shops I've been in. Ditto transport.
We imagine we are individuals but we are all really herd animals. People realize that it would be a good idea to wear a mask, but don't feel comfortable until everybody else is wearing one too. Mask mandates achieve that by telling people to do what they really want to do anyway.

Bit disappointed in the low support for lockdown. We could put this country in a much better place in a matter of weeks with a robust lockdown.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

OffTheRock
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Re: Plan C

Post by OffTheRock » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:34 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Don't forget the travel restrictions, I don't want any of you coming over here.
They heard you and relaxed the current travel restrictions.

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