International travel

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jdc
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Re: International travel

Post by jdc » Mon May 03, 2021 4:57 pm

headshot wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:18 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:33 pm
We need to await the next round of vaccinations which have been tweaked to stop that variant. If possible.
Does the India variant sidestep current vaccines? I read somewhere that it doesn’t, but I’m not sure if I dreamt it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56844925
Scientists do not yet know whether this variant is more infectious or resistant to vaccines.

Dr Jeremy Kamil, a virologist at Louisiana State University, says one of its mutations is similar to those seen in variants identified in South Africa and Brazil.

And this mutation may help the virus evade antibodies in the immune system that can fight coronavirus based on experience from prior infection or a vaccine.
Bit more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_B.1.617#Mutations
ICMR found that convalescent sera of the COVID-19 cases and recipients of Bharat Biotech's BBV152 (Covaxin) were able to neutralize VUI B.1.617 although with a lower efficacy.

Anurag Agrawal, the Director of the Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology (IGIB), said the study on effectiveness of the available vaccines on the B.1.617 variant of SARS-CoV2 suggests that post vaccination, the infections are milder.
I think "reduce effectiveness of" rather than "sidestep".

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Mon May 03, 2021 9:44 pm

Well yeah, the variant is already here. Lets not bring in more or any more new interesting ones. Vaccines appear to be less effective against it.
Only 50% of the pop has one dose, there is still lots of fuel for an Indian style conflagration. Keep the lid on international travel.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by jdc » Mon May 03, 2021 9:51 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:44 pm
Well yeah, the variant is already here. Lets not bring in more or any more new interesting ones. Vaccines appear to be less effective against it.
Only 50% of the pop has one dose, there is still lots of fuel for an Indian style conflagration. Keep the lid on international travel.
Just seen this story re variants and the first dosed: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavi ... li=BBoPWjQ
Researchers found one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine provides insufficient protection against new variants of the COVID-19 virus.

In light of the findings, they are calling on public-health officials to administer a second dose to the widest cohort as quickly as they can.

"We're looking rather vulnerable to variants after one dose," said Danny Altmann, a professor of immunology at Imperial College London who co-authored the research.

As Dr Altmann pointed out, the findings are especially salient in Britain, where most people have had only one dose of a vaccine so far.
The study found that those who'd previously had a mild or even asymptomatic infection had a far higher immune response after one dose of the Pfizer vaccine than those who hadn't been ill.

The immune response was so strong, the study noted, that it also offered good protection against the variants first detected in Britain and South Africa.
However, the group of volunteers who had not been infected showed a much weaker immune response to the variants after one dose.

The study showed that their level of neutralising antibodies was 11 to 25-fold lower against the B117 variant compared with the original version of the virus, "resulting in the majority of individuals falling below the protective threshold."

The research team said their findings also likely apply to other variants in circulation, such as the P1, first detected and Brazil, and the B1617 and B1618 variants, first associated with India.

Dr Altmann said the findings are a precautionary tale as the UK continues to lift restrictions.

"One dose in terms of all of our measurable immune parameters of [the Pfizer vaccine] really does look very, very feeble and all the more so against variants," he said.

"And yet whatever the level of immunity that it's induced, it's certainly been enough to have had some impact. But it's really very, very weak compared to two doses. My message from that would be hang on in there for your second dose."

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Tue May 04, 2021 3:04 am

Thats scary stuff. Most people at this point have only had one dose. That means there is a huge population at risk.
Its like starting all over again. We need to stay locked down.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by headshot » Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 pm

We need mitigation’s like social distancing, compulsory mask use and universal testing.

Staying fully locked down at this stage probably isn’t feasible.

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Tue May 04, 2021 5:02 pm

headshot wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 pm
We need mitigation’s like social distancing, compulsory mask use and universal testing.

Staying fully locked down at this stage probably isn’t feasible.
Compulsory mask use indoor and outdoor. There was an article in the Times of India about double masking which was felt to protective against the new variants. I don't know if there was any actual data or if it was a suposition. In any case double masking would be a good idea.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by jimbob » Wed May 05, 2021 8:13 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:30 am
The fault is probably with the edgelord journalist rather than the well akshully psychologists and behavioural scientists, but
wot they reckon is that covid-status certificates could lead to deliberate infections.

The not-peer-reviewed preprint is Behavioural responses to Covid-19 health certification: A rapid review.
The potential benefits of certificates, such as enabling people to go to events and travel more freely and safely, need to be considered in the context of their potential for harm, say the authors, “but the nature and scale of these remains uncertain. Also uncertain is how any harms might most effectively be mitigated.”
Well here's an idea: how about you f.cking consider them, then. And get a clue about the nature and scale too and whether it's more or less than the potential benefits? Isn't it your f.cking job to figure that out?
The edgelord journalist is possibly thinking about what happened with Yellow Fever (in Louisiana?), where that was a thing, even with a far higher fatality rate.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: International travel

Post by jimbob » Wed May 05, 2021 8:15 am

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:10 pm
Flying is still dangerous, even for vaccinated people.
"Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others," according to the CDC, as respiratory droplets fall onto surfaces or float in the air. "We're still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease," the agency added.
Early in the pandemic, according to a CDC investigation, an unmasked passenger with no symptoms infected 12 fellow business class travelers, two people seated in economy and one crew member on a 10-hour international flight.
Last summer, 13 asymptomatic people on an international flight into Ireland infected another 46 people in six regions of the country, despite some use of masks on the plane. And in September, nine people tested positive after a flight from India to New Zealand, despite the fact that masks were mandatory on the plane.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flyi ... index.html
Yes, doing the sums on those, if everyone else was vaccinated and it reduced the chances of thrm catching and transmitting Covid sixfold, there'd still be some likely to catch and spread it
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: International travel

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:29 am
Martin_B wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:32 am
As far as I'm aware, a fairly substantial part of the advertising income of the Mail (and presumably other right-wing papers) comes (or maybe these days only came) from advertising foreign holidays/cruises. I wonder how this is going to play out. :popcorn:
Cruise ships are giant petri dishes for disease even when there isn't a pandemic. Let it sink.

The idea of putting all the older Mail readers on a boat together and letting covid sort them out isn't actually a good idea.
It is if you don't let them off

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Re: International travel

Post by lpm » Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: International travel

Post by dyqik » Wed May 05, 2021 10:36 am

lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
You can double your profit if you take Europeans to see the Statue of Liberty and Florida and Americans to see Europe as a final destination.

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Re: International travel

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 12:20 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:36 am
lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
You can double your profit if you take Europeans to see the Statue of Liberty and Florida and Americans to see Europe as a final destination.
Smart thinking - I like it!

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Wed May 05, 2021 12:59 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 1:09 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:59 pm
lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.
what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?

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Re: International travel

Post by OffTheRock » Wed May 05, 2021 5:41 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
Better hurry up and start hiring before they decide that cruise workers aren't essential workers any more.

Alternatively, G7 delegates from India might be a good source for staff.

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Re: International travel

Post by jdc » Wed May 05, 2021 5:49 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:09 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:59 pm
lpm wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am
My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.
It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.
what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?
Seems to be a use of this word in Canada that might fit with the way H is using it.

https://www.homelesshub.ca/solutions/pr ... ommunities
Frequently referred to as 'visible minorities' the term ‘racialized communities’ emcompasses all people that are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour. Aboriginal peoples in Canada are sometimes excluded from this definition, but should not be. Increasing the term racialized communities is replacing visible minorities because in many municipalities that population of people who are non-white make up the majority, not minority of the overall population.
[sic]

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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Wed May 05, 2021 6:00 pm

Britons fly via Turkey to avoid costly quarantine
Any British citizen arriving home who has been to a country on the red list in the past 10 days must pay to quarantine in a government-approved hotel.

By comparison, anyone arriving in the UK from a country not on the list is told to self-isolate for 10 days at home - so long as they've not been in a red list country for the last 10 days.
So, basically, spend 10 days in Istanbul on your way to the UK, and then self-isolate at home for 10 days instead of being stuck in a hotel.
molto tricky

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Thu May 06, 2021 3:23 am

jdc wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:49 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:09 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:59 pm


It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.
what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?
Seems to be a use of this word in Canada that might fit with the way H is using it.

https://www.homelesshub.ca/solutions/pr ... ommunities
Frequently referred to as 'visible minorities' the term ‘racialized communities’ emcompasses all people that are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour. Aboriginal peoples in Canada are sometimes excluded from this definition, but should not be. Increasing the term racialized communities is replacing visible minorities because in many municipalities that population of people who are non-white make up the majority, not minority of the overall population.
[sic]
It means BAME and POC people. I liked the way it sounds, it just rolls off the tongue nicely, I didn't realize it Was Canadian and I apologize for using it.
Sorry.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by tom p » Thu May 06, 2021 11:43 am

You should be, you wretched wretch!

Anyway, typically it's poor people from places like the Philippines on boats, but there's no reason for that to be the case on LPM's dignitas cruises. She can employ anyone, and without the cost of feeding people all journey long, she could put that money into better pay & conditions for the staff (along with a complimentary therapist). Or she could employ only psychopaths or other people with no empathy (Katie Hopkins, for example). After all, it was just a silly fun joke that didn't need ruining.

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Re: International travel

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 06, 2021 12:56 pm

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.
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Re: International travel

Post by tom p » Thu May 06, 2021 3:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:56 pm
It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.
There was plenty of slavery and exploitation of people with yellow skin too. Did you know that in Hong Kong after WWII, anyone asian was required to make way for a European, not just on the street, but in queues too.

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Re: International travel

Post by Martin_B » Thu May 06, 2021 11:56 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:56 pm
It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.
Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne. :)
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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Fri May 07, 2021 12:05 am

tom p wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:43 am
You should be, you wretched wretch!

Anyway, typically it's poor people from places like the Philippines on boats, but there's no reason for that to be the case on LPM's dignitas cruises. She can employ anyone, and without the cost of feeding people all journey long, she could put that money into better pay & conditions for the staff (along with a complimentary therapist). Or she could employ only psychopaths or other people with no empathy (Katie Hopkins, for example). After all, it was just a silly fun joke that didn't need ruining.
It wasn't funny, so couldn't be considered a joke.
Double dose. Double mask. Double distance

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Re: International travel

Post by Herainestold » Fri May 07, 2021 12:07 am

Martin_B wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:56 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:56 pm
It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.
Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne. :)
Cruise ships are inhertently racist and white supremacist. Maybe one very small minor benefit of this pandemic would be the end of cruising
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Re: International travel

Post by JQH » Fri May 07, 2021 8:21 am

Herainestold wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:07 am
Martin_B wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:56 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:56 pm
It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.
Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne. :)
Cruise ships are inhertently racist and white supremacist. Maybe one very small minor benefit of this pandemic would be the end of cruising
Huge carbon foot print too.
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