International travel

[jdc]

We need to await the next round of vaccinations which have been tweaked to stop that variant. If possible.

Does the India variant sidestep current vaccines? I read somewhere that it doesn’t, but I’m not sure if I dreamt it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56844925

Scientists do not yet know whether this variant is more infectious or resistant to vaccines.

Dr Jeremy Kamil, a virologist at Louisiana State University, says one of its mutations is similar to those seen in variants identified in South Africa and Brazil.

And this mutation may help the virus evade antibodies in the immune system that can fight coronavirus based on experience from prior infection or a vaccine.

Bit more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_B.1.617#Mutations

ICMR found that convalescent sera of the COVID-19 cases and recipients of Bharat Biotech's BBV152 (Covaxin) were able to neutralize VUI B.1.617 although with a lower efficacy.

Anurag Agrawal, the Director of the Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology (IGIB), said the study on effectiveness of the available vaccines on the B.1.617 variant of SARS-CoV2 suggests that post vaccination, the infections are milder.

I think "reduce effectiveness of" rather than "sidestep".

[Herainestold]

Well yeah, the variant is already here. Lets not bring in more or any more new interesting ones. Vaccines appear to be less effective against it.
Only 50% of the pop has one dose, there is still lots of fuel for an Indian style conflagration. Keep the lid on international travel.

[jdc]

Well yeah, the variant is already here. Lets not bring in more or any more new interesting ones. Vaccines appear to be less effective against it.
Only 50% of the pop has one dose, there is still lots of fuel for an Indian style conflagration. Keep the lid on international travel.

Just seen this story re variants and the first dosed: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavi ... li=BBoPWjQ

Researchers found one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine provides insufficient protection against new variants of the COVID-19 virus.

In light of the findings, they are calling on public-health officials to administer a second dose to the widest cohort as quickly as they can.

"We're looking rather vulnerable to variants after one dose," said Danny Altmann, a professor of immunology at Imperial College London who co-authored the research.

As Dr Altmann pointed out, the findings are especially salient in Britain, where most people have had only one dose of a vaccine so far.

The study found that those who'd previously had a mild or even asymptomatic infection had a far higher immune response after one dose of the Pfizer vaccine than those who hadn't been ill.

The immune response was so strong, the study noted, that it also offered good protection against the variants first detected in Britain and South Africa.

However, the group of volunteers who had not been infected showed a much weaker immune response to the variants after one dose.

The study showed that their level of neutralising antibodies was 11 to 25-fold lower against the B117 variant compared with the original version of the virus, "resulting in the majority of individuals falling below the protective threshold."

The research team said their findings also likely apply to other variants in circulation, such as the P1, first detected and Brazil, and the B1617 and B1618 variants, first associated with India.

Dr Altmann said the findings are a precautionary tale as the UK continues to lift restrictions.

"One dose in terms of all of our measurable immune parameters of [the Pfizer vaccine] really does look very, very feeble and all the more so against variants," he said.

"And yet whatever the level of immunity that it's induced, it's certainly been enough to have had some impact. But it's really very, very weak compared to two doses. My message from that would be hang on in there for your second dose."

[Herainestold]

Thats scary stuff. Most people at this point have only had one dose. That means there is a huge population at risk.
Its like starting all over again. We need to stay locked down.

[headshot]

We need mitigation’s like social distancing, compulsory mask use and universal testing.

Staying fully locked down at this stage probably isn’t feasible.

[Herainestold]

We need mitigation’s like social distancing, compulsory mask use and universal testing.

Staying fully locked down at this stage probably isn’t feasible.

Compulsory mask use indoor and outdoor. There was an article in the Times of India about double masking which was felt to protective against the new variants. I don't know if there was any actual data or if it was a suposition. In any case double masking would be a good idea.

[jimbob]

The fault is probably with the edgelord journalist rather than the well akshully psychologists and behavioural scientists, but
wot they reckon is that covid-status certificates could lead to deliberate infections.

The not-peer-reviewed preprint is Behavioural responses to Covid-19 health certification: A rapid review.

The potential benefits of certificates, such as enabling people to go to events and travel more freely and safely, need to be considered in the context of their potential for harm, say the authors, “but the nature and scale of these remains uncertain. Also uncertain is how any harms might most effectively be mitigated.”

Well here's an idea: how about you f.cking consider them, then. And get a clue about the nature and scale too and whether it's more or less than the potential benefits? Isn't it your f.cking job to figure that out?

The edgelord journalist is possibly thinking about what happened with Yellow Fever (in Louisiana?), where that was a thing, even with a far higher fatality rate.

[jimbob]

Flying is still dangerous, even for vaccinated people.

"Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others," according to the CDC, as respiratory droplets fall onto surfaces or float in the air. "We're still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease," the agency added.
Early in the pandemic, according to a CDC investigation, an unmasked passenger with no symptoms infected 12 fellow business class travelers, two people seated in economy and one crew member on a 10-hour international flight.
Last summer, 13 asymptomatic people on an international flight into Ireland infected another 46 people in six regions of the country, despite some use of masks on the plane. And in September, nine people tested positive after a flight from India to New Zealand, despite the fact that masks were mandatory on the plane.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flyi ... index.html

Yes, doing the sums on those, if everyone else was vaccinated and it reduced the chances of thrm catching and transmitting Covid sixfold, there'd still be some likely to catch and spread it

[tom p]

Holidays abroad should be discouraged even once legal

As far as I'm aware, a fairly substantial part of the advertising income of the Mail (and presumably other right-wing papers) comes (or maybe these days only came) from advertising foreign holidays/cruises. I wonder how this is going to play out.

Cruise ships are giant petri dishes for disease even when there isn't a pandemic. Let it sink.

The idea of putting all the older Mail readers on a boat together and letting covid sort them out isn't actually a good idea.

It is if you don't let them off

[lpm]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

[dyqik]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

You can double your profit if you take Europeans to see the Statue of Liberty and Florida and Americans to see Europe as a final destination.

[tom p]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

You can double your profit if you take Europeans to see the Statue of Liberty and Florida and Americans to see Europe as a final destination.

Smart thinking - I like it!

[Herainestold]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.

[tom p]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.

what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?

[OffTheRock]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

Better hurry up and start hiring before they decide that cruise workers aren't essential workers any more.

Alternatively, G7 delegates from India might be a good source for staff.

[jdc]

My business idea of Dignitas Cruises would be ideal for this situation. Set off full, return empty, help to conserve shark populations.

It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.

what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?

Seems to be a use of this word in Canada that might fit with the way H is using it.

https://www.homelesshub.ca/solutions/pr ... ommunities

Frequently referred to as 'visible minorities' the term ‘racialized communities’ emcompasses all people that are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour. Aboriginal peoples in Canada are sometimes excluded from this definition, but should not be. Increasing the term racialized communities is replacing visible minorities because in many municipalities that population of people who are non-white make up the majority, not minority of the overall population.

[sic]

[shpalman]

Britons fly via Turkey to avoid costly quarantine

Any British citizen arriving home who has been to a country on the red list in the past 10 days must pay to quarantine in a government-approved hotel.

By comparison, anyone arriving in the UK from a country not on the list is told to self-isolate for 10 days at home - so long as they've not been in a red list country for the last 10 days.

So, basically, spend 10 days in Istanbul on your way to the UK, and then self-isolate at home for 10 days instead of being stuck in a hotel.

[Herainestold]

It would be great for the crew who are mostly racialized people from developing countries.

what the f.ck is a "racialized" person?

Seems to be a use of this word in Canada that might fit with the way H is using it.

https://www.homelesshub.ca/solutions/pr ... ommunities

Frequently referred to as 'visible minorities' the term ‘racialized communities’ emcompasses all people that are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour. Aboriginal peoples in Canada are sometimes excluded from this definition, but should not be. Increasing the term racialized communities is replacing visible minorities because in many municipalities that population of people who are non-white make up the majority, not minority of the overall population.

[sic]

It means BAME and POC people. I liked the way it sounds, it just rolls off the tongue nicely, I didn't realize it Was Canadian and I apologize for using it.
Sorry.

[tom p]

You should be, you wretched wretch!

Anyway, typically it's poor people from places like the Philippines on boats, but there's no reason for that to be the case on LPM's dignitas cruises. She can employ anyone, and without the cost of feeding people all journey long, she could put that money into better pay & conditions for the staff (along with a complimentary therapist). Or she could employ only psychopaths or other people with no empathy (Katie Hopkins, for example). After all, it was just a silly fun joke that didn't need ruining.

[Bird on a Fire]

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.

[tom p]

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.

There was plenty of slavery and exploitation of people with yellow skin too. Did you know that in Hong Kong after WWII, anyone asian was required to make way for a European, not just on the street, but in queues too.

[Martin_B]

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.

Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne.

[Herainestold]

You should be, you wretched wretch!

Anyway, typically it's poor people from places like the Philippines on boats, but there's no reason for that to be the case on LPM's dignitas cruises. She can employ anyone, and without the cost of feeding people all journey long, she could put that money into better pay & conditions for the staff (along with a complimentary therapist). Or she could employ only psychopaths or other people with no empathy (Katie Hopkins, for example). After all, it was just a silly fun joke that didn't need ruining.

It wasn't funny, so couldn't be considered a joke.

[Herainestold]

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.

Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne.

Cruise ships are inhertently racist and white supremacist. Maybe one very small minor benefit of this pandemic would be the end of cruising

[JQH]

It's interesting that, while many cruise ships have flags of convenience in places like Liberia or Bahamas, most of their (racialised) staff are from Asia or Latin America.

I guess having a bunch of ocean-going white folk being served by black folk from the bilge hold would make the neocolonial exploitation a little too obvious to stomach.

Seeing as active euthanasia is only legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Colombia, Luxembourg, Western Australia, Canada and Spain I propose that lpm's cruises only employ folks from those jurisdictions.

Oi! Victoria, too. Although I can understand cruise ships not wanting to go to Melbourne.

Cruise ships are inhertently racist and white supremacist. Maybe one very small minor benefit of this pandemic would be the end of cruising

Huge carbon foot print too.