Misplaced kindness and the Highway Code

[Grumble]

Maybe I’m weird, but there are some well meant gestures that stress me out because I don’t think they’re appropriate. In particular I hate people who go against the Highway Code rights of way rules, even when they’re doing it seemingly to my advantage. I’m talking about letting me out of a side road, for example. For me it causes confusion and an obligation at the same time which I find quite stressful. It’s normally completely unnecessary as well, the “benefit” may be measured in seconds, and probably not even that when you get to the next set of lights.

[Trinucleus]

Maybe I’m weird, but there are some well meant gestures that stress me out because I don’t think they’re appropriate. In particular I hate people who go against the Highway Code rights of way rules, even when they’re doing it seemingly to my advantage. I’m talking about letting me out of a side road, for example. For me it causes confusion and an obligation at the same time which I find quite stressful. It’s normally completely unnecessary as well, the “benefit” may be measured in seconds, and probably not even that when you get to the next set of lights.

If you drive in London it's not an issue

[bjn]

You'd never get out of side roads in London if a person on the main road didn't give way to you.

[Opti]

I've been really pleased to find that in Spain when entering a dual carriageway from a slip road that almost always traffic moves to the outer lane (when able) to allow you to join easily.
Brits moan a lot about continental driving but outside urban centres I've found it to be an almost enjoyable experience. But woe betide you if you don't stick to the rules of the road, the fines are very steep. The roads are in pretty good condition too.

[science_fox]

Maybe I’m weird, but there are some well meant gestures that stress me out because I don’t think they’re appropriate. In particular I hate people who go against the Highway Code rights of way rules, even when they’re doing it seemingly to my advantage. I’m talking about letting me out of a side road, for example. For me it causes confusion and an obligation at the same time which I find quite stressful. It’s normally completely unnecessary as well, the “benefit” may be measured in seconds, and probably not even that when you get to the next set of lights.

I'm with you - unnecessary ceding of right of way is just confusing. As a cyclist it's actively dangerous. If I and Car A are riding on the main road and car A cedes RoW so car B can pull out/across, B will likely do so without checking thoroughly enough that car A had included me when ceding. I've had more near misses this way than any other driving.

[Grumble]

Maybe I’m weird, but there are some well meant gestures that stress me out because I don’t think they’re appropriate. In particular I hate people who go against the Highway Code rights of way rules, even when they’re doing it seemingly to my advantage. I’m talking about letting me out of a side road, for example. For me it causes confusion and an obligation at the same time which I find quite stressful. It’s normally completely unnecessary as well, the “benefit” may be measured in seconds, and probably not even that when you get to the next set of lights.

I'm with you - unnecessary ceding of right of way is just confusing. As a cyclist it's actively dangerous. If I and Car A are riding on the main road and car A cedes RoW so car B can pull out/across, B will likely do so without checking thoroughly enough that car A had included me when ceding. I've had more near misses this way than any other driving.

Happened to me yesterday, car ceded to me, I pulled out, a parent and child were stood on an island that I hadn’t looked at because I was looking at the car ceding to me. My fault - no accident happened - but I would have looked at the island in the normal way of things.

[noggins]

Oh does your bike not have brakes?

I despise people who apologize/ thank with a flash of the hazard lights.

[Grumble]

Oh does your bike not have brakes?

I despise people who apologize/ thank with a flash of the hazard lights.

I’m talking about driving a car.

[monkey]

Here in my part of the US, people normally don't let others pull out because seemingly the whole point of driving is to get there before everyone else.

It's different when I'm on my bike though, some people think they are being helpful when they give me right of way before my turn, e.g. turning left at traffic lights, or at a 4-way stop. They Are Not. It's normally done without consideration for what's going on with all the other cars that might be knocking about and I can't tell the difference between a driver that's letting me cross its path and one that is distracted and hasn't noticed the lights have changed and is about to start moving.

[dyqik]

Here in my part of the US, people normally don't let others pull out because seemingly the whole point of driving is to get there before everyone else.

In my part, they do it constantly, and it massively inconveniences a whole queue of traffic in order to let one person out earlier.

[IvanV]

Maybe I’m weird, but there are some well meant gestures that stress me out because I don’t think they’re appropriate. In particular I hate people who go against the Highway Code rights of way rules, even when they’re doing it seemingly to my advantage. I’m talking about letting me out of a side road, for example. For me it causes confusion and an obligation at the same time which I find quite stressful. It’s normally completely unnecessary as well, the “benefit” may be measured in seconds, and probably not even that when you get to the next set of lights.

I agree with you. Take the priority granted you by law and go, because otherwise you cause confusion and the risk of an accident, as well as delaying the traffic trying to follow you.

And yes this does happen in London, regularly. Just the other day, by the British Museum, I was trying to turn right into a side turn on my bicycle. A car coming from the opposite direction, also turning into that road, which I was due to follow, screeched to a halt as it entered that road to wave a patiently waiting pedestrian across. I'd already starting my turn to follow it, and was now stopped at right angles half way across the wrong carriageway with a car bearing down on me...

[KAJ]

<snip>
And yes this does happen in London, regularly. Just the other day, by the British Museum, I was trying to turn right into a side turn on my bicycle. A car coming from the opposite direction, also turning into that road, which I was due to follow, screeched to a halt as it entered that road to wave a patiently waiting pedestrian across. I'd already starting my turn to follow it, and was now stopped at right angles half way across the wrong carriageway with a car bearing down on me...

Highway Code Rule 8

At a junction. When you are crossing or waiting to cross the road, other traffic should give way. Look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you, and cross at a place where drivers can see you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way (see Rules H2 and 170).

Rule H2

Rule H2 - Rule for drivers, motorcyclists, horse drawn vehicles, horse riders and cyclists
At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning.

[jimbob]

<snip>
And yes this does happen in London, regularly. Just the other day, by the British Museum, I was trying to turn right into a side turn on my bicycle. A car coming from the opposite direction, also turning into that road, which I was due to follow, screeched to a halt as it entered that road to wave a patiently waiting pedestrian across. I'd already starting my turn to follow it, and was now stopped at right angles half way across the wrong carriageway with a car bearing down on me...

Highway Code Rule 8

At a junction. When you are crossing or waiting to cross the road, other traffic should give way. Look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you, and cross at a place where drivers can see you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way (see Rules H2 and 170).

Rule H2

Rule H2 - Rule for drivers, motorcyclists, horse drawn vehicles, horse riders and cyclists
At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning.

Yup, that was one of the recent changes to the Highway Code

[monkey]

Here in my part of the US, people normally don't let others pull out because seemingly the whole point of driving is to get there before everyone else.

In my part, they do it constantly, and it massively inconveniences a whole queue of traffic in order to let one person out earlier.

The getting there before everyone else thing filters into other behaviors too.

But it could be worse, I could live in Atlanta.

[TimW]

Yup, that was one of the recent changes to the Highway Code

Which bit exactly?

The wording might have changed but the basic idea has been in there for decades at least.

[KAJ]

Yup, that was one of the recent changes to the Highway Code

Which bit exactly?

The wording might have changed but the basic idea has been in there for decades at least.

It was all over the UK news earlier this year. Here is one summary from the RAC New Highway Code rules - what you need to know, from which:

From January 2022 a pedestrian waiting to cross should be given priority. Previously, drivers were told to give way to pedestrians if they ‘have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road’.

[Bird on a Fire]

Depends a bit I think. If I'm trundling along towards a red light and someone's reversing out of roadside parking, I let them out. Also vans, lorries and especially buses around rush hour (especially as when I'm not driving I often take the bus).

But clearly signalled with a wave or a flash and not if there's s risk of confusing other road users. It's just I live in a city centre, nobody's going anywhere fast, and the road's a nicer place if you don't have to sit waiting for several minutes for gaps in traffic to align.

[Chris Preston]

Here in my part of the US, people normally don't let others pull out because seemingly the whole point of driving is to get there before everyone else.

I used to think Adelaide had some of the most impatient drivers in the developed world (a place where indicators are solely ornamental and if someone does indicate to change lanes, the practice is to move to fill that spot before the other driver can get there). However, following our recent attendance at my MIL's COVID super-spreader 95th birthday party, the Junior Ps decided they would do a road trip from Denver to San Antonio. Due to a flight delay, we had to overnight in Dallas on the way home and met the Junior Ps. They commented that indicator use was, if anything, worse than Adelaide and speed limits were obviously advisory only.

[TimW]

Yup, that was one of the recent changes to the Highway Code

Which bit exactly?

The wording might have changed but the basic idea has been in there for decades at least.

It was all over the UK news earlier this year. Here is one summary from the RAC New Highway Code rules - what you need to know, from which:

From January 2022 a pedestrian waiting to cross should be given priority. Previously, drivers were told to give way to pedestrians if they ‘have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road’.

Indeed it was, but a lot of coverage was clueless.

So, I guess both rules already existed, and or waiting to cross was added?

[Gfamily]

Indeed it was, but a lot of coverage was clueless.

So, I guess both rules already existed, and or waiting to cross was added?

Waiting to cross and the driver's obligation to give priority if they were pulling out of a side road were added.

[KAJ]

Depends a bit I think. If I'm trundling along towards a red light and someone's reversing out of roadside parking, I let them out. Also vans, lorries and especially buses around rush hour (especially as when I'm not driving I often take the bus).

But clearly signalled with a wave or a flash and not if there's s risk of confusing other road users. It's just I live in a city centre, nobody's going anywhere fast, and the road's a nicer place if you don't have to sit waiting for several minutes for gaps in traffic to align.

Highway Code

Rule 110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

[dyqik]

Depends a bit I think. If I'm trundling along towards a red light and someone's reversing out of roadside parking, I let them out. Also vans, lorries and especially buses around rush hour (especially as when I'm not driving I often take the bus).

But clearly signalled with a wave or a flash and not if there's s risk of confusing other road users. It's just I live in a city centre, nobody's going anywhere fast, and the road's a nicer place if you don't have to sit waiting for several minutes for gaps in traffic to align.

Highway Code

Rule 110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Letting someone know you are there and see them, and waving to let them know that you are letting them out seems to fall within that.

[Sciolus]

Letting someone know you are there and see them, and waving to let them know that you are letting them out seems to fall within that.

My driving instructor was very clear that it doesn't.

[KAJ]

Depends a bit I think. If I'm trundling along towards a red light and someone's reversing out of roadside parking, I let them out. Also vans, lorries and especially buses around rush hour (especially as when I'm not driving I often take the bus).

But clearly signalled with a wave or a flash and not if there's s risk of confusing other road users. It's just I live in a city centre, nobody's going anywhere fast, and the road's a nicer place if you don't have to sit waiting for several minutes for gaps in traffic to align.

Highway Code

Rule 110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Letting someone know you are there and see them, and waving to let them know that you are letting them out seems to fall within that.

Emphasis added.

Agreed, with "and", but BoaF said "or" which seems to conflict with Highway Code.

That said, use of headlight flashing "to convey [any] other message" seems close to universal, so I did not mean to criticise BoaF - sorry for brusqueness. Personally, I never flash to convey other messages, and exercise great caution in responding to others flashes .

[lpm]

You should never flash lights or wave to signal. It's not permitted. For good reasons - it's ambiguous, other road users might think the signal is for them, and you might well have missed something else going on in the surroundings.

Flashing to signal to an oncoming car that their headlights are on full beam is the other common usage. That's not in the Highway Code. But seems to work as an unambiguous message.