COVID-19
Re: COVID-19
Report from NHS on the brink
Recommended.
Small detail: Someone's been covering up "use by" dates on protective masks.
Recommended.
Small detail: Someone's been covering up "use by" dates on protective masks.
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- Dorkwood
- Posts: 1520
- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm
Re: COVID-19
As Dave says, it'll be sufficiently trained staff that will be a hell of a limit to the plan. Looking after someone on a ventilator isn't just wandering in and out, posing a few buttons and listening it to see if the machine goes ping.
Re: COVID-19
And rolling in on bulldozers won't solve the critical issues.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:29 pmAs Dave says, it'll be sufficiently trained staff that will be a hell of a limit to the plan. Looking after someone on a ventilator isn't just wandering in and out, posing a few buttons and listening it to see if the machine goes ping.
- EACLucifer
- Stummy Beige
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Re: COVID-19
Seems that training staff is the key; how long would it take to get medical and nursing students trained in some of the basic ventilator techniques etc? A lot of them have already done a bunch of work in hospitals, and might not be any less in a position to learn than, say, specialists from utterly unrelated disciplines*.
*I gather Italy has been reduced to using pathologists for frontline care at times
*I gather Italy has been reduced to using pathologists for frontline care at times
- Pucksoppet
- Snowbonk
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Re: COVID-19
Presumably they have already called upon the veterinary surgeons. Someone pointed out that they too have ventilators.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:43 pmSeems that training staff is the key; how long would it take to get medical and nursing students trained in some of the basic ventilator techniques etc? A lot of them have already done a bunch of work in hospitals, and might not be any less in a position to learn than, say, specialists from utterly unrelated disciplines*.
*I gather Italy has been reduced to using pathologists for frontline care at times
- EACLucifer
- Stummy Beige
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Re: COVID-19
I presumed they would have been working on ventilator scale-up before this monday, too. If there's a sensible, helpful thing most nations are doing, it's not sound to presume our government are.Pucksoppet wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:49 pmPresumably they have already called upon the veterinary surgeons. Someone pointed out that they too have ventilators.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:43 pmSeems that training staff is the key; how long would it take to get medical and nursing students trained in some of the basic ventilator techniques etc? A lot of them have already done a bunch of work in hospitals, and might not be any less in a position to learn than, say, specialists from utterly unrelated disciplines*.
*I gather Italy has been reduced to using pathologists for frontline care at times
Hell, I've a relative who is a doctor, between jobs as he's moving house. Nobody's asked him to get to work immediately, and I'm not sure how his own attempts to get involved have gone yet.
Re: COVID-19
Not read the article but the use by date change was raised in yesterday's Health Select Committee meeting with NHS top brass. Masks were put through QA tests and dated accordingly. No conspiracy or cock up.bmforre wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:15 pmReport from NHS on the brink
Recommended.
Small detail: Someone's been covering up "use by" dates on protective masks.
- EACLucifer
- Stummy Beige
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Re: COVID-19
It takes Trump to make a good idea sound stupid. Hospital ships are actually a good thing to bring into use at this point, or at least, those with ICUs are. We don't have a formal hospital ship here*, but RFA Argus has an ICU that really oughtn't be sitting empty if she can be brought into an appropriate port.
*It's not white, no red crosses on it. It is big, though, but it's also armed, hence no such designation.
Re: COVID-19
Thanks, I thought this would probably be the case. I tried to beat back some out-of-date-mask-outrage on Twitter a day or two ago but had only my own speculation to go on…
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through
Re: COVID-19
Gary Neville is emptying his hotels of guests so that NHS staff who need to isolate themselves from their family while working can stay for free. And he's guaranteeing the wages of his staff.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pmThey could be used, though it might be a better idea to use a construction company.
In China they just requisitioned building like hotels or sports arenas. If they are empty anyway that would be easiest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51953883
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: COVID-19
Indeed. Using existing buildings makes more sense than starting from an empty field. What about places like Earl's Court or the NEC?Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pmThey could be used, though it might be a better idea to use a construction company.
In China they just requisitioned building like hotels or sports arenas. If they are empty anyway that would be easiest.
- EACLucifer
- Stummy Beige
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Re: COVID-19
That looks like a fantastic idea. Chelsea FC have done similar, and in response to that, the NHS asked for more of that sort of thing. Surely we should be trying to requisition hotels in the relevant areas, or offering funding for them to convert? Hell, it might even keep people employed. Hotel cleaners could potentially retrain fairly easily into staff lodgings cleaners.Gfamily wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:47 pmGary Neville is emptying his hotels of guests so that NHS staff who need to isolate themselves from their family while working can stay for free. And he's guaranteeing the wages of his staff.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 pmThey could be used, though it might be a better idea to use a construction company.
In China they just requisitioned building like hotels or sports arenas. If they are empty anyway that would be easiest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51953883
Re: COVID-19
Yes. The govt is being slow to cotton on to the fact that we have masses and masses of idle resources, waiting to be told how to deploy.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
Re: COVID-19
Yeah, they're being careful not to rule it out so it's probably on the cards soon, I assume the M25 will be the boundary? We're just inside it (Uxbridge) and are as prepared as we can reasonably be but it'll scupper my plan to drop off supplies to my self-isolating dad in Worcestershire. Hopefully home deliveries will resolve their problems soon.
- Bird on a Fire
- Princess POW
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Re: COVID-19
The UK government seems really really slow to make any decisions whatsoever, which isn't good right now. Or perhaps they just aren't good at communicating clearly.
Portugal is usually hopelessly inefficient and disorganised, but they've already managed to implement clear rules (e.g. 1/3 capacity in shops). My PhD funding body just emailed to say our contracts all get extended by at least a month due to the shutdown to help us catch up afterwards, with further extensions should the situation continue.
The UK has more money and much more organised bureaucracy, so it's quite surprising how much of a vacuum there is in terms of telling people how to behave. But what's to blame? Overstretched resources? A longstanding culture of reaction rather than proaction? Malice aforethought?
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
- Little waster
- After Pie
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Re: COVID-19
I for one am shocked to find out the provenly lazy, dishonest and incompetent Johnson turned out to be a lazy, dishonest and incompetent PM, shocked I say!Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:48 pmThe UK government seems really really slow to make any decisions whatsoever, which isn't good right now. Or perhaps they just aren't good at communicating clearly.
Portugal is usually hopelessly inefficient and disorganised, but they've already managed to implement clear rules (e.g. 1/3 capacity in shops). My PhD funding body just emailed to say our contracts all get extended by at least a month due to the shutdown to help us catch up afterwards, with further extensions should the situation continue.
The UK has more money and much more organised bureaucracy, so it's quite surprising how much of a vacuum there is in terms of telling people how to behave. But what's to blame? Overstretched resources? A longstanding culture of reaction rather than proaction? Malice aforethought?
Who could possibly have predicted that ...
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: COVID-19
f.ck me, hasn’t Italy suffered enough?
Re: COVID-19
Would you counter Bono with Berlioz?
La Damnation de Faust?
Or Witches' Sabbath from Symphonie Fantastique?
Re: COVID-19
If I really wanted to depress myself even further I’d go for Laurie Anderson’s The Fifth Plague. However, Radio 4 cheered me up a couple of days ago by playing The Lark Ascending during the Today prog.
Re: COVID-19
You people don’t seem to be paying attention. The plan to use hotels has been discussed and they’re working with providers already. This was discussed on a BBC radio programme over the weekend.
Re: COVID-19
Is this 'working with providers' in the same way that Matt Hancock was 'working with supermarkets' to ensure food was delivered to people in self-isolation? Nearly two weeks ago now. How's that going?
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
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Re: COVID-19
Anyone able to point me toward evidence of the length of time someone will be infectious before they are aware of any symptoms?
Quite literally asking for a friend.
Quite literally asking for a friend.
- Little waster
- After Pie
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Re: COVID-19
The guardian has produced a "helpful" working from home guide.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -isolating
Tl;Dr version.
Take the thousands of pounds of cutting-edge IT devices you presumably have in the cupboard under the stairs, just behind the pile of old issues of People's Friends you've been stockpiling for just this moment.
Convert one of your many spare rooms (or artisanal shepherd's hut) into a home office, make sure your desk and chair are ergonomic from the range of options you have.
Deal with bored children by buying a neon "keep out" sign. Simples.
He says hunched up over the kitchen table on an old laptop with a noisy 6yo running around him.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -isolating
Tl;Dr version.
Take the thousands of pounds of cutting-edge IT devices you presumably have in the cupboard under the stairs, just behind the pile of old issues of People's Friends you've been stockpiling for just this moment.
Convert one of your many spare rooms (or artisanal shepherd's hut) into a home office, make sure your desk and chair are ergonomic from the range of options you have.
Deal with bored children by buying a neon "keep out" sign. Simples.
He says hunched up over the kitchen table on an old laptop with a noisy 6yo running around him.
Last edited by Little waster on Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
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Re: COVID-19
Same here, but its 8 and 11 year olds.Little waster wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:34 amHe says hunched up over the kitchen table on an old laptop with a noisy 6yo running around him.
- Woodchopper
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Re: COVID-19
Found this from here: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... anning.pdfWoodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:34 amAnyone able to point me toward evidence of the length of time someone will be infectious before they are aware of any symptoms?
Quite literally asking for a friend.
But that's from 12 March and a lot has happened since then.Transmission in pre-symptomatic stage of infection:In addition to casereports, pre-symptomatic transmission has been inferred through modelling,and the proportion of pre-symptomatic transmission was estimated to be around 48% and 62%[41].Pre-symptomatic transmissionwas deemed likely based ona shorter serial interval of COVID-19 (4.0 to 4.6 days) than the mean incubation period(fivedays)with the authors indicating that many secondary transmissions would have already occurred at the time when symptomatic cases are detected and isolated[42].Major uncertainties remain in assessing the influence of pre-symptomatic transmission on the overall transmission dynamics of the pandemic