US Election

[FlammableFlower]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

[jimbob]

OANN

Always read that as ONAN no idea why.

ETA: ninja’d

I genuinely hadn't realised until Steamy's post that it wasn't.

I'm a fast but not accurate reader.

[Grumble]

Slightly reassuring analysis from the Atlantic.
I do worry about the aspect of not taking him seriously enough still.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... te/617084/

[Millennie Al]

The destruction of democracy in the USA must be resisted by what ever means are required to resist it - even insurrection and war if it came to it

Insurrrection and war are not democratic processes (except in the fantasy of some 2nd amendment nutters), so that's a variant on the "we had to destroy the village to save it".

Surrendering to a coup isn't peaceful, either. The response needs to be proportionate to the threat, and if that threat is that democracy will be overthrown without the use of force to stop it, then yes, force is both acceptable and necessary morally. The end results of fascism are too awful to allow it.

Insurrection and war are not resisting the destruction of democracy: it is avenging it. A worthy cause, but different.

Meanwhile, the context which you decided to ignore, is that at the present situation, with worthless lawsuits used as a smokescreen for misinformation, then it is ok to shame lawyers for taking part.

You explicitly said "insurrection and war". That's a rather big step up from shaming lawyers.

[Chris Preston]

My understanding is that, other than delaying tactics, it matters little what the Senate does at the joint sitting because you need a vote of the Senate and a vote of the House to disqualify electoral college votes otherwise they count. I fully expect the Republicans to try and disqualify votes, but it will be unlikely for them to get the House to agree.

The optics of trying to steal the election at this stage are going to look bad and, Trump's base notwithstanding, likely to hurt future political promotion.

The optics are going to look good for the 70% of Republicans who think the election was stolen. With any luck this will split the republicans, but more likely the crazies will be even more in charge after a purge.

These are likely the same 70% of Republican voters who believed Obama was born in Kenya. Reality means nothing to them. However, many of them are only there as followers of Trump. It is not that they like what Trump has done - his main achievements: trade war with China, massive tax cut for the rich, dismantling the ACA, fueling COVID-19, have only hurt them. What they like is Trump's lack of inhibition in attacking his (and their perceived) enemies.

The Republican Party, first through the Tea Party and now through Trumpism has sold out to an alternative reality in the pursuit of power. It cannot last. It will be ugly for a while, but ultimately an ideology focused on the poorly educated, white, rural, evangelical, male minority cannot prevail with demographics moving against them.

[lpm]

Arizona.

Called by AP but not by Edison.

Mr Biden leads by 11,635.

Estimated 24,738 left to count.

No recount unless within 0.1%, which it won't be.

I am expecting Edison to call it today.

Arizona was indeed called last night, Edison joining AP. All networks now give Mr Biden 290 therefore.

[Woodchopper]

Arizona.

Called by AP but not by Edison.

Mr Biden leads by 11,635.

Estimated 24,738 left to count.

No recount unless within 0.1%, which it won't be.

I am expecting Edison to call it today.

Arizona was indeed called last night, Edison joining AP. All networks now give Mr Biden 290 therefore.

Damn close though, 49.4% versus 49.06%. The Republicans who thought they could still win it weren't bonkers.

[El Pollo Diablo]

...specifically for thinking they could still win it. However, they were then, and remain now, bonkers.

[EACLucifer]

Arizona.

Called by AP but not by Edison.

Mr Biden leads by 11,635.

Estimated 24,738 left to count.

No recount unless within 0.1%, which it won't be.

I am expecting Edison to call it today.

Arizona was indeed called last night, Edison joining AP. All networks now give Mr Biden 290 therefore.

Damn close though, 49.4% versus 49.06%. The Republicans who thought they could still win it weren't bonkers.

It only really became completely clear who would win it when the remaining ballots from most counties were done, and only Pima county had much left, as Biden was winning the Pima county batches. The earlier call was likely based on a failure to understand an Arizona specific trend in voting patterns, where both sides used mail in voting extensively, but Democrats returned their ballots earlier, meaning the later counted batches were more Republican friendly. Fox probably called it based on Biden winning the Maricopa county mail in ballots - Maricopa is something like 3/5 of the state population - and the presumption that that would continue. As it was, Trump won the later arriving mail ballots in Maricopa county, just not by enough to offset the lead from earlier counting, and the continuing Biden gains in Pima county.

[EACLucifer]

Meanwhile, the context which you decided to ignore, is that at the present situation, with worthless lawsuits used as a smokescreen for misinformation, then it is ok to shame lawyers for taking part.

You explicitly said "insurrection and war". That's a rather big step up from shaming lawyers.

Read the whole f.cking post, don't just nitpick sentences. That way, you won't make so much of a fool of yourself for failing to understand such basic concepts as "if this situation is so important that it would justify the use of force of arms if that became required to avert disaster, then far less radical violations of convention, like shaming lawyers to try and stop them filing worthless lawsuits to aid Trump's misinformation campaign is also justified"

[EACLucifer]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

[FlammableFlower]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

Hopefully these will close down sharpish and the legal smokescreen will have to be dropped. Hopefully, too, it'll make those Republicans that have been pushing for this look rather stupid for supporting it too.

As an aside - seems that 130 secret service personnel are either self-isolating with COVID or are having to quarantine due to exposure all thanks to having to follow Trump around in the election.

[EACLucifer]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

Hopefully these will close down sharpish and the legal smokescreen will have to be dropped. Hopefully, too, it'll make those Republicans that have been pushing for this look rather stupid for supporting it too.

As an aside - seems that 130 secret service personnel are either self-isolating with COVID or are having to quarantine due to exposure all thanks to having to follow Trump around in the election.

Yeah. While the right to counsel is very important, these lawsuits aren't going to change the election result - they are either utterly unwinnable or wouldn't change anything even if won, or in most cases, both - but are giving cover to the obstruction of the transition, which is a deliberate act of sabotage that will weaken the incoming Biden administration, including on the issue of COVID response. It also restricts the ability of the Secret Service to bring Biden's security detail up to presidential, rather than presidential-candidate, levels of protection.

[Woodchopper]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

Problems for the lawyers include the risk that they’d be disbarred if they were found to have lied to a judge.

[EACLucifer]

According to the Inde, his lawyers in Arizona have dropped the case/him.

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

Problems for the lawyers include the risk that they’d be disbarred if they were found to have lied to a judge.

There's been a fair bit of lawyers walking back claims and admitting not to have evidence of fraud in the face of questioning by judges, no doubt as a result of that risk. The judges, so far, do not appear to be suffering fools gladly, either, and are asking the right questions.

[EACLucifer]

For those wondering why I'm so bothered by the false claims of fraud and so on, it's twofold.

Firstly, the claims are in themselves dodgy, and given they are targetted specifically at racially diverse cities rather than the suburbs where the swing against Trump happened, rely on racist assumptions.

Secondly, one part of the intent appears to be to create a Dolchstosslegende for Trump's defeat; the original Dolchstosslegende was a factor in the Nazis rise to power. Likewise the Lost Cause myth propped up neo-Confederates and racist policies for a century after the Confederacy was defeated.

[bolo]

Problems for the lawyers include the risk that they’d be disbarred if they were found to have lied to a judge.

That, and also, these are high profile firms that work for powerful people. They don't want to be seen as losers, or nonserious, or to have a permanent stink of Trumpiness. They have top lawyers, and they charge top prices, and they need to protect their brands.

[monkey]

In a single tweet Trump has claimed credit for having the most secure election ever, and claimed that it was fraudulent. That's impressive, even for him.

For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!

[monkey]

And now Porter Wright are moving to withdraw as counsel in Pennsylvania. Unclear if this is fear of sanctions due to the numerous problems with the cases*, concerns over public image**, or whether it has something to do with Trump's infamy for not paying his bills.


*Problems include lack of evidence and lack of identifiable harm the court can relieve; finding fifty or even five thousand dodgy votes wouldn't make a damn difference to anything, and so the court can't fix it.

**Though the Lincoln project are mostly going after Jones Day, they have mentioned Porter Wright, and they are hardly the only people contacting law firms filing frivolous b.llsh.t for Trump's smokescreen and letting them know what they think of it.

Problems for the lawyers include the risk that they’d be disbarred if they were found to have lied to a judge.

There's been a fair bit of lawyers walking back claims and admitting not to have evidence of fraud in the face of questioning by judges, no doubt as a result of that risk. The judges, so far, do not appear to be suffering fools gladly, either, and are asking the right questions.

They said they would present some evidence, once they've found it, in one of the Pennsyvania cases

[Vertigowooyay]

And to the surprise of literally no-one with a functioning brain, Qanon looks like it was all a load of old sh.t.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanons-ho ... one-silent

[EACLucifer]

So it looks like Trump's campaign have dropped their lawsuit in Arizona after the shitshow it has been so far, including the very obvious situation that they were never going to get close to closing the gap.

And one of their bigger, and realistically most likely to succeed, lawsuits relating to Pennsylvania has been dismissed by the Third Circuit.

Article III standing doctrine speaks in jargon, but the gist of its meaning is plain enough. To bring suit, you—and you personally—must be injured, and you must be injured in a way that concretely impacts your own protected legal interests. If you are complaining about something that does not harm you—and does not harm you in a way that is concrete—then you lack standing. And if the injury that you claim is an injury that does no specific harm to you, or if it depends on a harm that may never happen, then you lack an injury for which you may seek relief from a federal court. As we will explain below, Plaintiffs here have not suffered a concrete, particularized, and non-speculative injury necessary under the U.S. Constitution for them to bring this federal lawsuit.

The familiar elements of Article III standing require a plaintiff to have “(1) suffered an injury in fact, (2) that is fairly traceable to the challenged conduct of the defendant, and (3) that is likely to be redressed by a favorable judicial decision.”

I'm quoting this part of the opinion specifically as it explains what is wrong with most of Trump's challenges; specifically, plaintiffs must be harmed by something that impinges on their legal rights, and that harm has to be concrete, not speculative, and it needs to be redressable. Trump's challenges fail on all three points of the quoted test, as they cannot prove they were harmed by opening up more voting options, and unless there is a realistic prospect of overturning what are large margins in all contested states, they are not redressable.

It's kinda hilarious, in its own way, just how bad the legal arguments of the Trump side of things were. For example, trying to argue that a clause that requires all votes to be equally weighted was violated because increasing turnout "diluted" election day voters' votes. We also see the same shittiness of trying to invalidate tranches of votes after they were cast that we saw in Harris County, Texas.

ETA: Specifically, the Pennsylvania lawsuit that failed was trying to throw out a tranche of postal votes that were legally cast before/on election day, but arrived within three days of election day. This tranche haven't been included in counts yet, and Biden is comfortably winning the state without them.

[dyqik]

Federal judge in Michigan has thrown the attempt to delay certifying the result in that state out.

[EACLucifer]

Federal judge in Michigan has thrown the attempt to delay certifying the result in that state out.

It's almost as if 1) the Trump campaign don't know what the hell they are doing legally and 2) a lot of election issues are meant to be decided at state level anyway.

I've got to admit it's kinda funny that Trump's stacking of the supreme court might fail to influence the election because of States' Rights.

ETA: It does seem that the latter point is the reasoning here.

[dyqik]

MSNBC has called Georgia for Biden (it was pretty obvious, but still). That's 306 for Biden.

[Martin Y]

Federal judge in Michigan has thrown the attempt to delay certifying the result in that state out.

It's almost as if 1) the Trump campaign don't know what the hell they are doing legally ...

Well since they are trying to find a way to make a court agree with the fiction of the Dear Leader's delusion that he did not simply lose the election, when in fact he did simply lose the election, then it's exactly as if they don't know what they are doing legally. They only need to be seen to be trying to do something, however futile, until someone comes and leads the crazy man away.