Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
- Woodchopper
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
Here’s the EMA press release: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astra ... -low-blood
Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
Yep. It really sucks that AZ has hit this problem.bob sterman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:46 pmIf there are going to be restrictions placed on the use of the AZ vaccine with younger age groups - this is going to cause massive problems for the developing world.
This was supposed to be the vaccine that was affordable - sold on a non-profit basis - to low and middle-income countries. And these countries - because of the age structure of their populations - are those where a larger proportion of vaccinations would be in younger age groups.
The EMA press release says most of the cases are women under 65. This is the demographic that take the pill and a quick google suggests the combined pill increases the risk of clots by 2 to 6 times, but I don't think many women avoid the pill because of that. Is that comparable to the incidence after AZ? I can't find base incidence of thrombosis to tell.
ETA: But I guess the clotting associated with the pill might be less serious. More DVT in the legs, less CVS and pulmonary clots perhaps.
Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
I think a specific difference is that in the AZ case, there is a close relation between the vaccination and the blood clot event - whereas the pill is likely to have been taken for an extended period before any problems emerge with a clot.raven wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:27 pmThe EMA press release says most of the cases are women under 65. This is the demographic that take the pill and a quick google suggests the combined pill increases the risk of clots by 2 to 6 times, but I don't think many women avoid the pill because of that. Is that comparable to the incidence after AZ? I can't find base incidence of thrombosis to tell.
ETA: But I guess the clotting associated with the pill might be less serious. More DVT in the legs, less CVS and pulmonary clots perhaps.
Overall, the risk from the pill is significantly higher, but the perception of risk differs.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
- Woodchopper
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
I think that there is a different calculation. An unplanned pregnancy brings risks of blood clotting and of course may other health and social problems. An individual woman and her doctor might decide that taking hormones is the most effective way of avoiding pregnancy. Other methods are available but they can involve severe side effects for some, or having to trust others to be careful.raven wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:27 pmYep. It really sucks that AZ has hit this problem.bob sterman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:46 pmIf there are going to be restrictions placed on the use of the AZ vaccine with younger age groups - this is going to cause massive problems for the developing world.
This was supposed to be the vaccine that was affordable - sold on a non-profit basis - to low and middle-income countries. And these countries - because of the age structure of their populations - are those where a larger proportion of vaccinations would be in younger age groups.
The EMA press release says most of the cases are women under 65. This is the demographic that take the pill and a quick google suggests the combined pill increases the risk of clots by 2 to 6 times, but I don't think many women avoid the pill because of that. Is that comparable to the incidence after AZ? I can't find base incidence of thrombosis to tell.
ETA: But I guess the clotting associated with the pill might be less serious. More DVT in the legs, less CVS and pulmonary clots perhaps.
With the vaccine, if stocks can be switched between different producers without affecting overall vaccination rates then an rare risk is reduced with no cost. Of course that is a big 'if' and the calculation won't be cost free if reduced use of the AZ vaccine reduces the overall speed of vaccination.
Another consideration is whether uptake of all vaccines will decrease if people perceive that the authorities aren't being very very careful.
Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
That also assumes that other vaccines don't also turn out to have severe but exceedingly rare adverse side-effects once a few tens of millions of doses have been administered. (They probably will.)Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:25 amWith the vaccine, if stocks can be switched between different producers without affecting overall vaccination rates then an rare risk is reduced with no cost. Of course that is a big 'if' and the calculation won't be cost free if reduced use of the AZ vaccine reduces the overall speed of vaccination.
- bob sterman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
It's another adenovirus vector vaccine isn't it?shpalman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:14 pmEMA reviewing possible link between Johnson & Johnson vaccine and rare blood clots
I know the vaccines aren't IV but...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17148587/
"Acute thrombocytopenia has been consistently reported following intravenous administration of adenovirus"
"...adenovirus induces platelet activation and promotes the formation of platelet-leukocyte aggregates both in vitro and in vivo."
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- Catbabel
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
Sputnik V is an adenovirus based vaccine and has no blood clot issues.bob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:53 pmIt's another adenovirus vector vaccine isn't it?shpalman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:14 pmEMA reviewing possible link between Johnson & Johnson vaccine and rare blood clots
I know the vaccines aren't IV but...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17148587/
"Acute thrombocytopenia has been consistently reported following intravenous administration of adenovirus"
"...adenovirus induces platelet activation and promotes the formation of platelet-leukocyte aggregates both in vitro and in vivo."
Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
What you don’t know can’t hurt you...Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:02 pmSputnik V is an adenovirus based vaccine and has no blood clot issues.bob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:53 pmIt's another adenovirus vector vaccine isn't it?shpalman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:14 pmEMA reviewing possible link between Johnson & Johnson vaccine and rare blood clots
I know the vaccines aren't IV but...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17148587/
"Acute thrombocytopenia has been consistently reported following intravenous administration of adenovirus"
"...adenovirus induces platelet activation and promotes the formation of platelet-leukocyte aggregates both in vitro and in vivo."
- Woodchopper
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
https://apnews.com/article/beijing-immu ... _medium=APIn a rare admission of the weakness of Chinese coronavirus vaccines, the country’s top disease control official says their effectiveness is low and the government is considering mixing them to give them a boost.
Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates,” said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao Fu, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu.
Beijing has distributed hundreds of millions of doses in other countries while also trying to promote doubt about the effectiveness of Western vaccines.
“It’s now under formal consideration whether we should use different vaccines from different technical lines for the immunization process,” Gao said.
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- Catbabel
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine
It is a bit misleading to quote efficacy numbers between different vaccines tested in different countries at different times. Any vaccine tested in Brazil with its lethal variants would likely have a low efficacy.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:54 amhttps://apnews.com/article/beijing-immu ... _medium=APIn a rare admission of the weakness of Chinese coronavirus vaccines, the country’s top disease control official says their effectiveness is low and the government is considering mixing them to give them a boost.
Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates,” said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao Fu, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu.
Beijing has distributed hundreds of millions of doses in other countries while also trying to promote doubt about the effectiveness of Western vaccines.
“It’s now under formal consideration whether we should use different vaccines from different technical lines for the immunization process,” Gao said.
I am assuming there must be decent data for the Chinese vaccines that have been approved in different markets, even if they haven't gone through formal approval from the EMA or the FDA.