Scrutable

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:29 pm Credit to Johnson. A year ago I was skeptical as to whether it could be negotiated in twelve months. But it was.

Except he's just claimed there were no non tariff barriers to trade, when there obviously are. I hope he knew what he was agreeing to

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... type=share

Trinucleus wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:29 pm

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:29 pm Credit to Johnson. A year ago I was skeptical as to whether it could be negotiated in twelve months. But it was.

Except he's just claimed there were no non tariff barriers to trade, when there obviously are. I hope he knew what he was agreeing to

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... type=share

That comment was part of the written statement rather than an off the cuff remark. https://twitter.com/benchu_/status/1342 ... 81924?s=21

Looks like a lie rather than ignorance.

Gfamily wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:03 pm

plodder wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:59 pm

Woodchopper wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:47 pm Yes, it’ll take people days to read it. Weeks to understand it.

Makes ratification a joke.

it would take experts that long! most MPs are not in that category. Rubber stamp and hold our noses...

And find that the agreement bans schools or something

So an inadvertent improvement in the law

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... is-6870330

So what is the real reason they wanted out of Erasmus. Is it just spiteful or a real desire to not let our kids experience life elsewhere.

Mind you, that pales into insignificance compared to some of the other 'little details' highlighted out that cut out and keep list

While the deal is a total sh.t sandwich, here is a little morsel from a less-sh.t area.

UK-issued EHIC cards will continue to be valid until their expiry date (previously it had been expected that they would become worthless on 1/1/2021), and the UK has committed to putting in place a system to replace them. This new system is tentatively entitled "Global Health Insurance Card", which actually sounds promising. If people who pay into the NHS end up with EHIC-style benefits (the key thing about the EHIC is that it includes cover for emergency treatment even if a hard-to-insure pre-existing condition is involved) for a large number of countries, it would actually be the one tangible net positive benefit of Brexit that remainers have been asking leavers to name for the last 5 years. (But could the NHS afford to do it for the US??)

sTeamTraen wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:22 pm While the deal is a total sh.t sandwich, here is a little morsel from a less-sh.t area.

UK-issued EHIC cards will continue to be valid until their expiry date (previously it had been expected that they would become worthless on 1/1/2021), and the UK has committed to putting in place a system to replace them. This new system is tentatively entitled "Global Health Insurance Card", which actually sounds promising. If people who pay into the NHS end up with EHIC-style benefits (the key thing about the EHIC is that it includes cover for emergency treatment even if a hard-to-insure pre-existing condition is involved) for a large number of countries, it would actually be the one tangible net positive benefit of Brexit that remainers have been asking leavers to name for the last 5 years. (But could the NHS afford to do it for the US??)

Bollocks. I was having a clear-out of my wallet the other day and cut it up assuming it'd be dead weight come next month.

UK government chapter by chapter summary of the agreement: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -explainer

Mate, come on, reading the UK government's summary?

Why not just read the Daily Mail if you want to be lied to?

Fishnut wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:24 am

sTeamTraen wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:22 pm While the deal is a total sh.t sandwich, here is a little morsel from a less-sh.t area.

UK-issued EHIC cards will continue to be valid until their expiry date (previously it had been expected that they would become worthless on 1/1/2021), and the UK has committed to putting in place a system to replace them. This new system is tentatively entitled "Global Health Insurance Card", which actually sounds promising. If people who pay into the NHS end up with EHIC-style benefits (the key thing about the EHIC is that it includes cover for emergency treatment even if a hard-to-insure pre-existing condition is involved) for a large number of countries, it would actually be the one tangible net positive benefit of Brexit that remainers have been asking leavers to name for the last 5 years. (But could the NHS afford to do it for the US??)

Bollocks. I was having a clear-out of my wallet the other day and cut it up assuming it'd be dead weight come next month.

That's even better! You have till the end of the year to apply for a new one, and the expiry date will be later now as well.

lpm wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:59 am Mate, come on, reading the UK government's summary?

Why not just read the Daily Mail if you want to be lied to?

It's still interesting to see their angle on it, to be fair.

It's like studying Roman history or something, where the only sources are massively biased accounts by the emperor's mates.

Bird on a Fire wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:24 am That's even better! You have till the end of the year to apply for a new one, and the expiry date will be later now as well.

Except Gov website says they're not issuing them !! Bastards

[didn't renew mine a few months back 'cos a) CoViD and b) Brexit ]

Lew Dolby wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:00 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:24 am That's even better! You have till the end of the year to apply for a new one, and the expiry date will be later now as well.

Except Gov website says they're not issuing them !! Bastards

[didn't renew mine a few months back 'cos a) CoViD and b) Brexit ]

HMG will have to move quite quickly with the new card because EHICs will start expiring soon. Hopefully it will be up and running in time for the tourist season, whenever that is. From 1/1/2021 you won't be able to get into any EU country from the UK because of COVID restrictions that exclude non-EU citizens. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To underscore: This is an open-ended provision, not limited in time by the arbitrariness of any individual's card expiry date. That's only an issue because the UK is no longer issuing EHICs except to people who have benefits under the WA (mostly (a) UK pensioners with an S1 living in the EU and (b) EU-in-UK people who pay into the NHS). Basically, EHIC benefits are locked in for good. And EU visitors to the UK will be able to use their EHIC with NHS providers.

This is actually a better result than anyone expected, and whoever took the time to add this to the negotiating list deserves a large medal. And if the UK can get other countries to join the new GHIC then this will actually be a tiny Brexit plus. (The USA is obviously absurd, ignore my previous post, but it might be quite easy to add deals with Canada and Australia, plus non-EU holiday destinations like Turkey, Tunisia, etc.)

This is an interesting comparison of the Brexit deal compared to what we had as EU members. When put side by side, it doesn't look so great



CF

Cardinal Fang wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 pm This is an interesting comparison of the Brexit deal compared to what we had as EU members. When put side by side, it doesn't look so great



CF

Is it this? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1956#p62433

sovereignty will have some advantages that aren’t on that list. what’s up for debate is the price we paid for it. that’s what the list shows.

shpalman wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:29 pm

Cardinal Fang wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 pm This is an interesting comparison of the Brexit deal compared to what we had as EU members. When put side by side, it doesn't look so great



CF

Is it this? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1956#p62433

The Government want everyone to only compare this deal with no deal when the real comparison should be with remaining in the EU. They keep on about sovereignty and controlling our borders, when we have a border between NI and rUK, something no British PM could ever agree to.

Blackcountryboy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:11 pm The Government want everyone to only compare this deal with no deal when the real comparison should be with remaining in the EU.

To be fair (and it pains me to say it), that ship sailed on 31 January. So in terms of what could be done this year, this is a very slightly less sh.t sandwich than no (trade) deal would have been.

Fishnut wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:24 am Bollocks. I was having a clear-out of my wallet the other day and cut it up assuming it'd be dead weight come next month.

Good news - the scheme is already up and running!

That Simon Calder bloke who does the travel stuff on the telly wrote:The NHS is not issuing new EHICs to UK citizens. Instead, if you need treatment abroad you need to get a provisional replacement certificate (PRC) from hospital. You, or a companion/family member, must call NHS Overseas Healthcare Services on +44 191 218 1999 during working hours

sTeamTraen wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:25 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:11 pm The Government want everyone to only compare this deal with no deal when the real comparison should be with remaining in the EU.

To be fair (and it pains me to say it), that ship sailed on 31 January. So in terms of what could be done this year, this is a very slightly less sh.t sandwich than no (trade) deal would have been.

I don't think I was being unfair, the people who now negotiated this deal played a big part in getting to the situation where this was the choice.

Blackcountryboy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:09 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:25 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:11 pm The Government want everyone to only compare this deal with no deal when the real comparison should be with remaining in the EU.

To be fair (and it pains me to say it), that ship sailed on 31 January. So in terms of what could be done this year, this is a very slightly less sh.t sandwich than no (trade) deal would have been.

I don't think I was being unfair, the people who now negotiated this deal played a big part in getting to the situation where this was the choice.

Of course. But the government's position is that remaining in the EU was literally unthinkable after the referendum, so such comparisons would be irrelevant. On that logic, and only on that logic, they have a point. On every other level, f.ck the lot of them.

uk CavEd in oN fish tO WIN A wIDEr TrEaty because of course it f.cking did what's wrong with you

You want hot takes from subject matter experts, law professors, trade specialists, in bite sized chunks?

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/12/the ... g-picture/

Hilariously, the 'kippers are discovering that they have been stitched up like kippers over, er, herring, smoked or otherwise.

shpalman wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:47 pm uk CavEd in oN fish tO WIN A wIDEr TrEaty because of course it f.cking did what's wrong with you

While the deal unveiled by the prime minister and European commission president Ursula von der Leyen looks certain to pass through the Westminster parliament, largely because Labour will back it, pro-Brexit MPs remain determined not to fall into the trap of endorsing the full agreement before having subjected every clause to full scrutiny.

I'd be interested to know Starmer's reasoning for (a) whipping for the bill and (b) saying well in advance that he will do so. I appreciate that he has to look like he is backing what's best for Britain, and no other deal is on the table, but if the ERG headbangers can get enough Tories to rebel, it will only pass because of Labour support. And because even the best possible deal that the UK could have got would have led to a major loss of GDP, and this is clearly not that deal, Labour risks being associated with the coming depression.

sTeamTraen wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 pm

shpalman wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:47 pm uk CavEd in oN fish tO WIN A wIDEr TrEaty because of course it f.cking did what's wrong with you

While the deal unveiled by the prime minister and European commission president Ursula von der Leyen looks certain to pass through the Westminster parliament, largely because Labour will back it, pro-Brexit MPs remain determined not to fall into the trap of endorsing the full agreement before having subjected every clause to full scrutiny.

I'd be interested to know Starmer's reasoning for (a) whipping for the bill and (b) saying well in advance that he will do so. I appreciate that he has to look like he is backing what's best for Britain, and no other deal is on the table, but if the ERG headbangers can get enough Tories to rebel, it will only pass because of Labour support. And because even the best possible deal that the UK could have got would have led to a major loss of GDP, and this is clearly not that deal, Labour risks being associated with the coming depression.

True, but the last thing Starmer wants is to have to share the blame for no deal chaos. Labour doesn’t yet have a consistent polling lead.