Trump 2.0

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philbo
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by philbo »

Grumble wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 4:37 am If this wasn’t happening at the top of the American government I would be enjoying it a whole lot more
Two screaming toddlers, one who controls the world's biggest military, the other the world's biggest cesspit

As they start throwing their toys out of the pram, it kinda feels like the whole world is that pram, and who knows who/what the f.ck gets thrown out next.


I gotta wonder, though: who actually knows what is in Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill"? The people voting on it aren't being given enough time even to scan its contents, let alone work out the implications. The OBR was working from a version changed multiple times since. Trump has no f.cking clue whatsoever beyond whatever headline tax cut he can crow about. Johnson is allowing additions that he can't have had time to read... given the multiple sources of amendments, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody knows exactly what is being voted on. So this Twitter spat is another distraction, though Musk possibly causing it to fail to pass might be the best toy to get ejected from the metaphorical pram.
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Tessa K
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Tessa K »

It was inevitable that two man babies who think they're both alphas would fall out. The mudslinging is very entertaining but the stakes for the world are too high to really enjoy it. Who will blink first?
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by FlammableFlower »

It's a fine balance as to who could do more damage. Musk's wealth is based on Tesla and SpaceX and Trump has the ability to hurt them both massively. It's well-documented as to how Musk has benefitted from DOGE and other government contracts that can be revoked or investigated to blacken his name. Musk has gone for the Epstein files to go at Trump, being a way to undermine his support from his base. He could also start funding challengers to GOP candidates to erode Trump's control of congress and the senate, but this will be slower.
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TopBadger
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by TopBadger »

FlammableFlower wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 9:16 am It's a fine balance as to who could do more damage.
Is it? One is a foreigner with money tied up in US business and assets, and the other is the President of the US with a supine cabinet and congress and the entire might of the US system seemingly in his pocket.

Doesn't look that balanced to me.

Remember Jack Ma and President Xi?
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Tessa K
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Tessa K »

Someone sent me this 🤣
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bolo
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by bolo »

philbo wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:47 am I gotta wonder, though: who actually knows what is in Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill"? The people voting on it aren't being given enough time even to scan its contents, let alone work out the implications. The OBR was working from a version changed multiple times since. Trump has no f.cking clue whatsoever beyond whatever headline tax cut he can crow about. Johnson is allowing additions that he can't have had time to read... given the multiple sources of amendments, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody knows exactly what is being voted on.
I have worked on bills of this size (in pages, not necessarily dollars). The number of people who have literally read every word will be very small, probably all staff rather than elected officials. There will be a larger number, again probably almost all staff, who have read section-by-section summaries of all of it, prepared by other staff. Almost nobody will have thought about the implications of all the individual pieces, but there will be teams of staff who have, collectively. The Representatives who voted on it will mostly have relied on advice from trusted staff in their own offices, the offices of relevant House committees, and the offices of their party leaders -- along with input from various interested outside parties, of course, who will also have had staff reading it. This is all normal and is really the only way a 1000+ page bill can work.

While the changes from the version on which CBO based its cost estimates may be large in absolute dollars, I doubt they are large in comparison to the bill as a whole.

And TBH it doesn't really matter much how sloppy the House bill is, because now the Senate will produce its version, and then a conference committee (or some equivalent process) will go through both versions, literally line by line, before coming up with a final version.

I'm sure nobody on this forum will like the final version, and it will undoubtedly still contain a few outright mistakes, but not really because the House rushed its version through before any Members had time to read it. They vote based on the big picture, plus the details of any smaller bits that are of particular importance to them, and that's just always going to be the case.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by TopBadger »

Apparently the US President / Defense Sec can't mobilize the National Guard without the State Governor requesting it. But it's happened anyway in the CA protests.

Another law bites the dust... the US's famed checks and balances don't seem to be worth anything right now.
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bolo
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by bolo »

TopBadger wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 3:55 pm Apparently the US President / Defense Sec can't mobilize the National Guard without the State Governor requesting it. But it's happened anyway in the CA protests.

Another law bites the dust... the US's famed checks and balances don't seem to be worth anything right now.
There are some circumstances in which the President can mobilize the National Guard without a State request. They are defined in law. As usual, the Trump Administration is pushing the boundaries of how it interprets that law. I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits, and the courts will opine on whether the boundary has been crossed. To me, it looks it has, but ianal.

Trump clearly has no respect for checks and balances, and will violate them if he can get away with it, but "try it and lose in court" is actually kinda how checks and balances are supposed to work.
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bolo
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by bolo »

bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pmI imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits.
Apparently Gov. Newsom has already said that California is going to sue.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by monkey »

(Ninja'd)
bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pm ...I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits...
California is suing the feds. In court tomorrow, I think.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Brightonian »

monkey wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 6:10 pm (Ninja'd)
bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pm ...I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits...
California is suing the feds. In court tomorrow, I think.
If California wins, the feds will say "you and whose army?".
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by headshot »

Brightonian wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:38 pm
monkey wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 6:10 pm (Ninja'd)
bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pm ...I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits...
California is suing the feds. In court tomorrow, I think.
If California wins, the feds will say "you and whose army?".
Have you seen the movie “Civil War”?
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by FlammableFlower »

Brightonian wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:38 pm
monkey wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 6:10 pm (Ninja'd)
bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pm ...I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits...
California is suing the feds. In court tomorrow, I think.
If California wins, the feds will say "you and whose army?".
Alternatively, Trump refuses send them in if things do get out of hand later/another emergency arises where they would be appropriate. Then blame any fall-out on Newsom in particular and Democrats in general.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by dyqik »

Brightonian wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:38 pm
monkey wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 6:10 pm (Ninja'd)
bolo wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:16 pm ...I imagine (hope) there will be lawsuits...
California is suing the feds. In court tomorrow, I think.
If California wins, the feds will say "you and whose army?".
California has a large national guard, a significant number of federal military bases that are ripe for taking over, and most of the country's defence contractors. It's also a significant portion of the US economy, and a significant portion of its population.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by TopBadger »

dyqik wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 6:13 am California has a large national guard, a significant number of federal military bases that are ripe for taking over, and most of the country's defence contractors. It's also a significant portion of the US economy, and a significant portion of its population.
I'm not sure of the point being made here (if there is one). Isn't the NG that is cracking down on the protesters and supporting ICE the very same Californian NG? If so then they're not riding to the rescue of the state over the feds, they're supporting the feds.

Apparently the current leader of the California National Guard is Major General Matthew P. Beevers, who was appointed by Gov Newsom. If the Judge tells the NG to stand down, will they obey the court, or the Def Sec? Can the Def Sec or President remove NG leaders from posts?

The size of California makes this a very telling test of democracy, because if Trump wins this battle here, he's won everywhere.

All this strife and we're only 1/8th of the way through the Trump presidency... :shock:
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Opti »

Meanwhile, under cover of the Trump-planned 'insurrection', RFK Jr has just dismissed the entire CDC Vaccine advisory group.

Trump wants blood running in the streets and RFk Jr.wants kids dying of preventable disease.
Time for a big fat one.
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Gfamily »

Opti wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:03 am Meanwhile, under cover of the Trump-planned 'insurrection', RFK Jr has just dismissed the entire CDC Vaccine advisory group.

Trump wants blood running in the streets and RFk Jr.wants kids dying of preventable disease.
Haemorrhagic fevers will do both, yay! :shock:
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Re: Trump 2.0

Post by Gfamily »

Federal agents turned up at two schools in LA, initially claiming to have permission from parents of children to access them.
They didn't.
https://archive.is/hM1JG
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
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