Starmer

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shpalman
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Re: Starmer

Post by shpalman » Thu May 07, 2020 9:26 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:48 pm
Stephanie gets me.

Beating a sleep-deprived* half**-dead Boris is fine. Beating an alert, relatively fit Boris backed by his adoring audience will be tougher.

*Whether he's bothered or not, babies are f.cking noisy.

**Unfortunately
Fair enough.

Between having Boris less knackered and having more of his genetic material in the world, I'm not sure which one I'd prefer.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Thu May 07, 2020 9:28 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:48 pm
Stephanie gets me.

Beating a sleep-deprived* half**-dead Boris is fine. Beating an alert, relatively fit Boris backed by his adoring audience will be tougher.

*Whether he's bothered or not, babies are f.cking noisy.

**Unfortunately
True, Johnson may have been having a bad day. But it was also Starmer's debut, he should also get better with more experience.

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Re: Starmer

Post by plebian » Thu May 07, 2020 11:12 am

It would be amazing if Starmer could get the labour MPs to be silent in pmqs when it reconvenes in the house as normal.

Starmer's forensic questions and no ya booing other than from the Tories. It would really hammer home the seriousness of his opposition versus the jokey frivolity of the government.
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Re: Starmer

Post by dyqik » Thu May 07, 2020 12:18 pm

discovolante wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:48 am
Is the GE in whenever time going to be fought on PMQ performances, or grooming gangs?
Whatever sh.t that can stick, obviously.

But the narrative of how PMQs goes, and other things, builds the setting and character descriptions that journalists and political commentators use to describe the political situation, the attacks and the campaign, and which then form the image and impression of the candidates that people see those attacks through.

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Re: Starmer

Post by tom p » Thu May 07, 2020 3:13 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:19 pm
FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:53 pm
Current format certainly is better for him than Johnson.
Also, Johnson just nearly died. I'd imagine he's at least mildly traumatised.

Also, Johnson just had a new baby. I'd imagine he's at least mildly sleep-deprived.

So he's probably performing roughly at his worst. It's a good opportunity for Starmer to get warmed up and build some momentum (not like that) before Johnson's back on top form.
Good points.
Get well soon, Boris, mate

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Re: Starmer

Post by Iron Magpie » Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 12:18 pm
discovolante wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:48 am
Is the GE in whenever time going to be fought on PMQ performances, or grooming gangs?
Whatever sh.t that can stick, obviously.

But the narrative of how PMQs goes, and other things, builds the setting and character descriptions that journalists and political commentators use to describe the political situation, the attacks and the campaign, and which then form the image and impression of the candidates that people see those attacks through.
The General Election? Over 4 four and a half years away and already it has started...the dis-information campaign that is. The tories are not leaving anything to chance. Their army of online trolls have already started posting memes about how Starmer was responsible for the grooming gangs not being prosecuted and also that because of Starmer Jimmy Saville was never taken to court.
I know he will probably see it as beneath him but if he doesn't do anything about it now*, it will get measurably worse when the election does come around and anyway, by then it will have been drip fed into the national consciousness and become something "everyone knows..."

*IANAL so don't know if he can legally threaten facebook and other platforms to stop allowing these lies to spread, but if he can, he absolutely must.

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Re: Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu May 14, 2020 10:54 am

And here come the smears...
Health minister Nadine Dorries deletes tweet sharing anti-Starmer smear
1 new update
4m ago
11:49
Health minister Nadine Dorries deletes tweet sharing anti-Starmer smear
Peter Walker Peter Walker
Labour has expressed alarm after a series of Conservative MPs, including a minister, shared a video tweeted by a hard-right Twitter account which falsely claimed Sir Keir Starmer obstructed the targeting of grooming gang victims when he led the Crown Prosecution Service.

The tweeted video was shared by Nadine Dorries, who is now a junior health minister, as well as Telford MP Lucy Allan and Maria Caulfield, who represents Lewes. All expressed alarm at what the video purported to show, with Dorries calling in “revealing”.

The 22-second clip from 2013 shows Starmer apparently recounting reasons why victims of grooming gangs might not be credible, talking about “the assumption that a victim of child sexual abuse will swiftly report what’s happened to them to the police; will be able to give a coherent, consistent account, first time; that they will not themselves have engaged in any offending or other behaviour; and that they will not have misused drugs or alcohol at any stage”.

The original tweeter, who also regularly posts anti-Islam messages and other hard-right content, titled the clip, “Keir Starmer explains why he didn’t prosecute grooming gangs when he was head if the Crown Prosecution Service.”

However, a fuller version of the video shows this is completely misleading. Starmer is in fact explaining why he had changed the prosecution guidelines, to move away from “a number of assumptions, which didn’t withstand scrutiny”.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Gentleman Jim » Thu May 14, 2020 1:26 pm

I don't know what is more frightening; this or the reminder that Mad Nad is a junior Health minister
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Re: Starmer

Post by Opti » Thu May 14, 2020 1:48 pm

Starmer has them nervous af.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu May 14, 2020 2:21 pm

Opti wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:48 pm
Starmer has them nervous af.
Yeah, they don't seem to like having to own up to stuff and then being held accountable for their lies when they try to avoid it...

Jim - yeah, it scares the wotsit out of me that she's in that role.

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Re: Starmer

Post by tom p » Thu May 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:26 pm
I don't know what is more frightening; this or the reminder that Mad Nad is a junior Health minister
the latter, definitely

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Re: Starmer

Post by bjn » Thu May 14, 2020 4:51 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:54 am
And here come the smears...
Health minister Nadine Dorries deletes tweet sharing anti-Starmer smear
1 new update
4m ago
11:49
Health minister Nadine Dorries deletes tweet sharing anti-Starmer smear
Peter Walker Peter Walker
Labour has expressed alarm after a series of Conservative MPs, including a minister, shared a video tweeted by a hard-right Twitter account which falsely claimed Sir Keir Starmer obstructed the targeting of grooming gang victims when he led the Crown Prosecution Service.

The tweeted video was shared by Nadine Dorries, who is now a junior health minister, as well as Telford MP Lucy Allan and Maria Caulfield, who represents Lewes. All expressed alarm at what the video purported to show, with Dorries calling in “revealing”.

The 22-second clip from 2013 shows Starmer apparently recounting reasons why victims of grooming gangs might not be credible, talking about “the assumption that a victim of child sexual abuse will swiftly report what’s happened to them to the police; will be able to give a coherent, consistent account, first time; that they will not themselves have engaged in any offending or other behaviour; and that they will not have misused drugs or alcohol at any stage”.

The original tweeter, who also regularly posts anti-Islam messages and other hard-right content, titled the clip, “Keir Starmer explains why he didn’t prosecute grooming gangs when he was head if the Crown Prosecution Service.”

However, a fuller version of the video shows this is completely misleading. Starmer is in fact explaining why he had changed the prosecution guidelines, to move away from “a number of assumptions, which didn’t withstand scrutiny”.
IANAL* but surely that's grounds for libel?

*The acronym that always makes me giggle.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 14, 2020 5:33 pm

It probably is, but I can't imagine a hopeful PM candidate suing a member of the public over something like that.
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Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Thu May 14, 2020 8:10 pm

This has Bannon’s scorched earth policy all over it.

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Re: Starmer

Post by tom p » Thu May 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:33 pm
It probably is, but I can't imagine a hopeful PM candidate suing a member of the public over something like that.
She's a member of parliament, not a member of the public.
Each person who shares or repeats a libel is also libelling

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Re: Starmer

Post by bjn » Thu May 14, 2020 10:01 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:53 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:33 pm
It probably is, but I can't imagine a hopeful PM candidate suing a member of the public over something like that.
She's a member of parliament, not a member of the public.
Each person who shares or repeats a libel is also libelling
The original defamer needs his balls strung up.

It looks like Number 10 sent the boys round to tell Nadine not to be a git and pull down the post.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 14, 2020 10:33 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:53 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:33 pm
It probably is, but I can't imagine a hopeful PM candidate suing a member of the public over something like that.
She's a member of parliament, not a member of the public.
Each person who shares or repeats a libel is also libelling
I was assuming he'd sue the originator of the lie, rather than everyone who repeated it.

If he singled out an opposing politician for court action that would also look iffy, I fear.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Little waster » Thu May 14, 2020 11:14 pm

Well the main thing is they have since had the decency to apologise to Starmer and publicly withdraw the smear ...



... what’s that you say? Really! Hmmm.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Stephanie » Fri May 15, 2020 9:35 am

Moved a post from here to the Covid thread viewtopic.php?f=19&t=747&p=32367#p32367
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Re: Starmer

Post by tom p » Fri May 15, 2020 10:13 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:33 pm
tom p wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:53 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:33 pm
It probably is, but I can't imagine a hopeful PM candidate suing a member of the public over something like that.
She's a member of parliament, not a member of the public.
Each person who shares or repeats a libel is also libelling
I was assuming he'd sue the originator of the lie, rather than everyone who repeated it.

If he singled out an opposing politician for court action that would also look iffy, I fear.
I disagree.
That would be picking a fair fight against someone who definitely should know better

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Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri May 15, 2020 10:45 am

Gonna post a full FT article because FT - if those w.nkers who built this place have a problem with that then <redacted>:
Tories seek return of all MPs to Westminster for PM’s sake

Senior Conservatives have called for all MPs to be allowed to return to the House of Commons as they become concerned Boris Johnson is struggling in the deserted chamber in his encounters with new Labour leader Keir Starmer.

The opposition party leader has been praised for his forensic performances in his first four weekly exchanges at prime minister’s questions. The former director of public prosecutions has focused on scrutinising the detail of the government’s response to coronavirus. Referring to Mr Johnson, a parliamentary sketch writer in the usually Tory-supporting Daily Telegraph said Sir Keir had used this week’s PMQs to “take him apart like a Duplo train set”.

The House of Commons is currently sitting in a hybrid arrangement because of coronavirus, with up to 50 MPs present in the chamber — the maximum allowed to maintain a two-metre separation — and 120 dialling in through Zoom. However, on most days barely a dozen MPs have turned up in person.

These arrangements will last at least until the beginning of June.

One Downing Street official said Mr Johnson had been “rattled” by his encounter with the Labour leader on Wednesday and that the prime minister and his allies were keen to get Tory MPs back into the Commons chamber as soon as possible to cheer him on.

“A lively environment probably does suit Boris more than Keir,” admitted a senior Tory MP. One Cabinet minister acknowledged Sir Keir was “very good” at PMQs and far more effective than his predecessor, Jeremy Corbyn. “He is forensic and deadly. I think the PM is worried.”

“Starmer has the political wind behind him. He is a highly intelligent, detail-oriented person who was one of the best human rights advocates and prosecutors in the country,” another senior Tory MP said.

“Boris is in a political difficulty that isn’t going away for a while. He’s not a details person, who is struggling to articulate what the point of his government is because no one knows beyond Brexit. Put those two together and he’s going to struggle for a while.”

But another senior Number 10 insider denied Mr Johnson was perturbed by his most recent Commons encounter with the Labour leader. “Keir Starmer is the one who was rattled,” the person said.

One Downing Street official said the government was eager for parliament to return in full to facilitate the passage of legislation. “We have a lot of big bills that we really need to get going on,” the individual said, pointing to that fact that chancellor Rishi Sunak had accidentally voted against the government. “You can see the current system isn’t ideal.”

Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of the Commons, on Wednesday called on all 650 MPs to return to Westminster to “set an example” to the rest of the country, to the consternation of the Speaker, Lindsay Hoyle.

Sir Lindsay said he would suspend parliament if physical distancing rules were breached.

Mr Rees-Mogg told the Commons the hybrid arrangements would continue until May 20, when parliament is due to go into recess. When the Commons returns on June 2, it is unclear whether more MPs will be allowed to return.

A final decision is likely to be made jointly by the government and Commons authorities.

The government’s eagerness to return to Westminster was criticised by opposition MPs. Jess Philips, a shadow Labour minister, said: “I cannot see how parliament can return to normal, safely and democratically fairly, when some will clearly be excluded. How on earth will it work, safely?”

Alistair Carmichael, a Liberal Democrat MP, criticised Mr Rees-Mogg for calling for all MPs to return. “I’m not going to put my family or my community at risk just because Jacob Rees-Mogg has an aversion to modernity.

“He’s like a Victorian mill owner having a bit of a spat because his gentleman’s club has run out of his favourite claret,” he added. “That is no way to run a modern parliament.”
I do like the "no, YOU'RE rattled" response.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Gfamily » Fri May 15, 2020 11:29 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:45 am
Gonna post a full FT article because FT - if those w.nkers who built this place have a problem with that then <redacted>:
Tories seek return of all MPs to Westminster for PM’s sake
I find that although following a link to the FT gives the "Paywall" version of article (right); if you then google the words in the title, in this case "Tories seek return of all MPs to Westminster for PM’s sake", you can read the full text from the Google link (left).

I don't pretend to understand it as the URL is the same for both, but it's been a consistent thing for a long time, and long may it last.
HTH
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Re: Starmer

Post by Fishnut » Fri May 15, 2020 11:38 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:45 am
Gonna post a full FT article because FT - if those w.nkers who built this place have a problem with that then <redacted>:
Tories seek return of all MPs to Westminster for PM’s sake"
I do like the "no, YOU'RE rattled" response.
Thanks for sharing that EPD. The 'it's Starmer who's rattled' comment made me do a spit take! It shows how little they've learned from Johnson's brush with death that they'd rather risk their own health and that of their families than admit that Boris is seriously out of his depth. I really hope that when parliament does get back together Labour stop with the jeering and here hereing. I know it's tradition but some traditions need to die. Starmer doesn’t need it and it would really highlight that the Tories are just playing politics while Labour are actually there to interrogate the government and hold them accountable.

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Re: Starmer

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri May 15, 2020 11:55 am

I'm hoping that before they all return Starmer can break the spell, as it were. If he can sufficiently build a reputation for being able to forensically interrogate Johnson and continue even in the face of ya-booing it'll allow the Tories to appear even more lacking.

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Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Fri May 15, 2020 12:26 pm

Average age of MPs is about 50, so a sizeable minority are in the age bracket where Covid-19 mortality rates start to jump up. (On top of this, the Tories are more male-biased I think, which is also a risk factor.)

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